Jake Aaron Villarreal: Welcome to our podcast, From the Ground Up, where we interview startup founders exploring their journeys, their successes, challenges and lessons learned. We hope you be inspired in discovering what it takes to build a thriving startup. I'm your host, Jake Aaron Villarreal, and here with us today we have Dawson Chen, the CEO and co-founder of Martin, a company that was funded by Y Combinator and others. And we'll dive in here. Dawson, welcome to the show.
Dawson Chen: Thanks Jake. Thanks so much for having me. It's really good to be here. And um yeah, love to chat about AI and Martin and everything else exciting that's going on.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Great. So a little bit about Dawson. Dawson went to the Harker School, a nonprofit K through 12 private school in Silicon Valley that's earned international recognition for its top academics. He then went on to Yale where he dropped out to build his startup, Martin, with co-founders from MIT and Carnegie Mellon. Dawson, I love your background. When we talk to investors and we invest in companies too, it's not always about the problem you're solving, sometimes it's about the team that you've built. How did you and your founders meet each other?
Dawson Chen: Yeah, I think that's a totally fair point. And I think at an early stage startup it totally is all about the team. We met in middle school actually. In sixth grade I think we built like our first software projects together. So me and Harsh, my MIT co-founder, we built like a Wheel of Fortune app I think during spring break like in middle school. And Arjun and I also um worked on the same like school development team. And we built like this college counseling uh meeting schedule or app for like all of our students and admin to use at school. So we've been building like actually websites and apps together as a team for a long time. And that's how we met, we met like hacking together at school. And um growing up over the years we've also like worked on some slightly more formal businesses. Like Harsh and I we started this company to give like one-on-one campus tours at our universities and it was like a marketplace, like, like Airbnb but for campus tours. So we did that for a year like in freshman year. And Arjun and I also did a nonprofit in high school to find jobs for the homeless people in San, San Jose. And so we've had a lot of shared experiences together.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: That's amazing. You know, you're one of the younger interview uh, interviews we're having, which is you know, you're not 20 quite yet, but it sounds like you've got you know eight plus years of already development and building products and you know working on startups (maybe they weren't defined as a startup back then, maybe products or projects), but really a lot of background, a lot of experience. Um so we're going to do something a little bit different here. We're not just going to talk to you about your company and the product you're building and the problem it's solving (and we'll get to that), but we're also going to see a, see it, see it in action and experience that and hopefully our listeners can, can see what that's like too. Uh before we get there, talk to me a little bit about your product, Martin. What inspired you to build it? And when you put your thesis together in the AI space, where do you fit and what problem are you trying to solve?
Dawson Chen: Yeah for sure. So Martin is a personal voice AI. So it's like a way better Siri with an LLM brain. And like Siri and Alexa, they've all been like a long list of if statements. And it's like a really robotic sort of like voice interface over existing apps, pulling up existing apps. But what Martin is trying to do is make [an] actual intelligent um like AI um personal companion and assistant, which gets to know you and speaks to you just like a human. And so we're thinking that like, as a whole new user interface, voice is going to be like the way that people interface with a lot of technology um on their phones. And we're building like the smoothest interaction layer with Martin. So yeah I, I'm happy to demo the app whenever, whenever ready.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Cool. Alright, we'll get in that in just a minute here. As a product, is it focused on the individual as a consumer? Is that who your market is? Are you, is there a bigger view for the enterprise? Are you looking [at] this being you know, a companion for, for companies to provide for their, for their employees? What's the sort of big picture for your product?
Dawson Chen: Yeah. So so far we've been going B2C, we've built an app that's on the App Store now. Um but of course like in the future there are a lot of big opportunities B2B as well. And a main one, um not quite as a companion for enterprises, but a lot of other companies want to have voice assistants baked into their applications. And whether that's like an app that teaches you a new language, or like an app that trains, trains you at doing like interviews or sales calls or whatever, like a lot of these apps also need voice components. And if we built the best interface, like that's way better technology than all the other interfaces, then we can also open up our, our technology (whether it's like as an API or as a service) um for other companies to, to leverage as well. So we're building like the core technology which starts as a consumer app, but definitely can grow and expand into a lot more use cases B2B as well.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: AI's got so many different areas that it's helping improve how companies operate and how tasks are automated. Where do you fit in there in terms of the competition landscape? Are there other products that are currently visible to you now where you're seeing that you're trying to grab market share and racing to you know to, to, to, to the finish line? Where do you fit in and, and how fast do you need to move with AI seeming to be developed in almost every aspect of techn-ology these days?
Dawson Chen: Yeah, there are a lot of AI assistants obviously, like there's one like for every like persona. And there are a bunch of different formats that they can be in. Uh the, the way that we've approached it is getting the interaction, the user interface layer down to be like the most natural and seamless possible. Which is like a really, really hard technical problem which we think, as we're nailing it, it'll give us a huge lead and a huge barrier. And that interaction layer as of now is like smooth voice interactions. And it's not so simple as like the way Siri has done it or Alexa has done it or even like Voice GPT. Um the way we're doing it is it allows you to basically speak with Martin like, supposedly as, as natural as you would to a human. Which means it should know when exactly you're done talking, and it should allow you to interrupt him. And when you interrupt him he doesn't just like freeze up, but he actually reacts to the inter- interruption. And it's all done in real-time with really low latency. Um so you can have like a really smooth interaction with whatever like assistant task you want it to do, or even have a production discussion or brainstorming session with him.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Great. Well Dawson, let's dive in. Let's see how it works.
Dawson Chen: Okay, cool. So it's on your phone, the Martin app, and it's on my action button, so I can just open it like this. Hey Martin, how's it going?
Martin (AI): Hey Dawson, I'm doing great. Thanks for asking. How about you?
Dawson Chen: Yeah I'm doing pretty good. New and exciting happening... I'm, I'm on a podcast with Jake right now, where we're talking about you, Martin, the voice AI. And I'm giving a demo right now to all our viewers.
Martin (AI): That's awesome Dawson. I'm glad to hear that you're doing well and that you're showcasing me on your podcast. It's always exciting to share the wonders of AI with others. How's the demo going so far? Is there anything specific you want...
Dawson Chen: It's, it's going pretty well. Um let's see, what... I want you to show off some of your capabilities. Why don't you like... um yeah, what do you do, Martin?
Martin (AI): That's great to hear Dawson. I'm glad the demo is going well so far. As for what I do, well, I'm here to assist you with various tasks and provide information. I can help you with things like searching the web, getting news updates, checking the weather, setting reminders, and much more. Just let me know what you need and I'll do my best to assist you. Is there anything specific you'd like me to demonstrate for your viewers?
Dawson Chen: Um let's just say like for Thanksgiving I'm trying to cook a dish, like a new dish. Something like innovative. Can you suggest something that been like maybe trending recently, maybe something with uh, that's not turkey?
Martin (AI): Ah, got it. It seems like you're interested in exploring my capabilities related to food and cuisine. Well, I can definitely help you with that. Whether you're looking for Mediterranean, Japanese, Mexican, Thai, or Italian cuisine, I can provide recommendations for specific dishes or even suggest popular restaurants in your area.
Dawson Chen: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah Martin. Um I'm more thinking like to cook like an easier, like let's say traditional dish, like, like just a normal Thanksgiving meal. What would you suggest?
Martin (AI): Ah, I see, you're interested in cooking a traditional Thanksgiving meal. That's a great idea! Cooking can be a fun and rewarding experience. For a classic Thanksgiving meal, you can't go wrong with a roasted turkey as the centerpiece. It's a timeless and traditional choice. To complement the turkey I...
Dawson Chen: I don't, I'm not really thinking of turkey this Thanksgiving. Why don't you find me like five recipes that don't have turkey and send them to my email?
Martin (AI): Give me a second. Sending notes to your email... Hey Dawson, I'm doing great. Thanks for asking. How about you? Anything new and exciting happening in your world?
Dawson Chen: Mar- Mar- did you send them to my email? Martin, did you send the notes to my email?
Martin (AI): Yes Dawson, I sent the notes to your email. You should receive them shortly. Let me know if you have any other questions or if there's anything else I can assist you with.
Dawson Chen: Okay, I can show the email.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, that's cool, the response rate's very quick.
Dawson Chen: Yeah um... oh shoot, okay, this, this, these notes aren't very uh... why it gave something else. Let me ask it one more time. Martin, can you send me five recipes of non-turkey Thanksgiving dishes to my email?
Martin (AI): Sending notes to your email... I've sent the five recipes of non-turkey Thanksgiving dishes to your email. You should receive them shortly.
Dawson Chen: Okay. Ah shoot, okay there, I think there's a small bug with the email sender, it's sending like not the right... Martin, can you send me five recipes related to like Thanksgiving dishes?
Martin (AI): Give me a second, I'm on it. Sure! Here are five recipes for non-turkey Thanksgiving dishes. One...
Dawson Chen: Okay, send those to... sending notes to your email.
Martin (AI): I've sent the recipes to your email.
Dawson Chen: Okay, now I should work. Okay here it is. So I don't know if you can see, but...
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah I can see it.
Dawson Chen: Yeah, he sends the recipes, and he attaches the links with them as, as well. And so that, those are like some really basic functionalities basically. Get, you can retrieve information, you can go into websites and get information from there and then talk to you about them, and then you can also send some notes to your email, and also set some reminders. And so those are like the very basic features. We've sort of focused on nailing the interface of the smooth voice interactions, and over time we're going to add more and more functionalities.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Got it. That's really cool. If I was to say, ask something, could [it] respond as well?
Dawson Chen: Yeah, probably! Yeah, we should try that.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, let's try this. And I'll have him send them... I don't know, send them to your email, but yeah, yeah... but more than anything, let me, I'd love to just ask some topic questions that are coming to my mind.
Dawson Chen: Okay, okay, okay, let's do that. Let's see. Hey Martin, um you know I told you I'm on this podcast with Jake. Why don't you actually talk to Jake a little bit? Um, he, he'd be really excited to meet you.
Martin (AI): That sounds, Dawson. That's awesome that you're on a podcast with Jake. I'd love to, to chat with him. Could...
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Martin, my name is Jake, nice to meet you. You know I uh, I live in Laguna Beach, but I've recently heard about Mammoth, a ski resort, and I'm thinking about going there. Where um... what's a good place to stay if I was to go?
Martin (AI): Hey Jake, nice to meet you too! Mammoth Mountain is a fantastic ski resort with some incredible slopes. If you're looking for a place to stay, I would recommend checking out the Village Lodge. It's located right at the base of the mountain and offers convenient access to the ski lifts. Plus, it has a cozy and welcoming atmosphere. Another great option is the Westin Monache Resort, which offers beautiful accommodations and is just a short distance from the slopes.
Dawson Chen: Okay.
Martin (AI): Jake, if you're looking for a place to stay in Mammoth, I would recommend checking out the Village Lodge, located right at the base of the mountain. Convenient access to the ski lifts. Stop...
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Martin, I have another question. Uh I haven't driven there before. How would I get there from Laguna Beach and how, how long will it take me?
Martin (AI): Let me see what I can find... to get from Laguna Beach to Mammoth Mountain... keep going... to get from Laguna Beach to Mammoth Mountain, you have a few options. You can drive, which is approximately a 6-hour journey covering, it's about 347.50...
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Is there a train? I didn't know there was a train! Where do I get that?
Martin (AI): Let's take a look. I apologize for the confusion, but it seems that there is no direct train service from Laguna Beach to Mammoth Mountain.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: I appreciate that, Martin. You're being honest with me. Okay, well I really uh thank you for your time. If I was...
Martin (AI): I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble understanding...
Dawson Chen: He's a little too fast today, I think there's a recent update which made him like really, really fast. Oh I see, it sounds like there was an update that made, made him super fast. Made you super fast. Martin, you're like answering super fast.
Martin (AI): Thank you Dawson, I try my best to keep up and provide speedy responses. It's all thanks to the recent update that made me a little faster. Is there anything else I can help you with?
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Uh, I think that's been really helpful. Um I guess lastly, if I wanted to go, what type of weather would I be getting if I went this weekend to Mammoth?
Martin (AI): Let me check the weather for you. Let me check the weather for you. I apologize, but it seems that I'm currently unable to retrieve the weather information from Mammoth Mountain. I...
Dawson Chen: I think the, our weather API is down. That's why it tries three different times. But... okay Martin, do you know what the weather, do you know the weather...
Martin (AI): Let me check the weather for you. Let me check the weather for you.
Dawson Chen: Yeah, I think the weather API is...
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Got it, okay. Cool.
Dawson Chen: Yeah. And on the app there are also some, some prompts for things that you're suggesting that you could talk about. And other parts of the app are like, you can have a "sentry mode", which is basically where he just listens in on a conversation and he doesn't respond. He just listens. Um it's sort of like for brainstorming sessions or for like having him listen in on a meeting. You can have him just like sit here, and he won't respond unless you say his name. Um, Martin, is that right?
Martin (AI): Yes, that's cor- that's correct Dawson. Martin is designed to listen and provide assistance when you specifically address him by name.
Dawson Chen: Okay, goodbye Mar-. Now he goes back to like listening mode. This is that some people find really useful.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: So if Martin was to listen to our whole podcast, could he come back and say, "Here's the five topics that I think are really interesting" or that type of insight?
Dawson Chen: Yeah, exactly. That, that would be like the main like um like utility of like this, the purple mode we, we designed for like usually when people sit in on a meeting. Um not only do they want to take notes, but they want someone who they can bounce ide- ideas off of at the end of the meeting or remember things and go back [to] certain topics. So it's really helpful for like brainstorming sessions um and, and sort of like open meeting with several people. Cool. Okay, do you want to um do the demo again? Do you feel like that's good like how it was? Or do you want to go ahead and we can like, I don't know if it'll be any better like if we try it again. Maybe like, maybe certain parts it, you could cut out, like it repeated the same thing, you can just like cut out the second time.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Okay, yeah. The weather, ignore the weather part. Yeah. Okay, cool, we'll clean it up. Okay, no big deal. Alright, that's really, that's, that's fascinating by the way. I love, I love the fact that the response is very quick, because it's programmed I guess for you as Dawson, it just seemed like it was almost like a... from a, I don't know, like a science fiction movie or something that's like the robot that's giving you insights and intelligence about how you operate or things you should think about. Or maybe reminders that you're not remembering. And so if it's got notifications, if it's an ability, it's got the ability to help you just do your, your work better or just live your life more organized. I think that's really cool. I, I, I, I don't know if a lot of people are actually using as much of those um AIs today, which are I think are coming for sure.
Dawson Chen: For sure. And you know we, we, our, our vision for this app was basically to have it like really be a personal AI for you. So it really gets to know you over time, has really good memory, and it's always there like really quickly. Um and as smooth as like a human assistant to interact with. So yeah, that, that's really the dream. And we're, we're seeing more people adapt it for like, adopt it for different use cases in the early days. Um and it's just sort of like a proof of concept for, for the interaction layer.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, that's really cool. So you can find it on the App Store. What's the um... feel free to share this information or not, um if whatever you feel comfortable... how, how many downloads are you at today or is it just getting in the market? Have you started really marketing it yet, kind of where you're at there?
Dawson Chen: Yeah, we just started um like launching it uh like about a week ago. Okay? So like since then we've gotten a few thousand downloads and... okay... yeah, a few thousand downloads and like a few hundred users um that are like really active, coming back. Um so really early in like the finding our market stage. And most we're using these like early users to really tune the retention and like what really sticks about this app. So a lot of learning in the early days before we really push, push like the lever and try to advertise it like a lot.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, makes total sense. You know you're um, you've got a really good idea. I love what you're building. You're younger in the journey than other companies that have raised you know Series A, B, C rounds. Um what's, what's something that you didn't think about before you went into Y Combinator that has really been good advice as you continue to, to, to launch your product into the market?
Dawson Chen: Um, I didn't think about before... um I think like the hardest part for us as a consumer app is like, unlike a B2B um service or like a SaaS company, you can't like learn exactly what to build from your users directly. So we have to, we had to find like a lot of different ways to like get user feedback and use those to synthesize new designs. Um and that's been really tricky for us, and I, I think there isn't a lot of like advice or wisdom out there for that um because it takes a lot of creativity. Um just for example, like um, it's hard to communicate with our users actually. Like especially our power users, like they, they don't necessarily like are like super willing to engage um because they're, they're not all from like the tech technology like industry. And they're not used to like the personal AI companion that they're talking to being like having a company behind them! So we have to find ways to like get feedback from them in the app. And like use that feedback to, and like our own usage of the app and our own friends' usage of the app to like really design new features. And I think collecting user feedback from a consumer app is something that's harder than, than we expected for sure.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, you know dropping... getting into Yale is a huge accomplishment first and foremost, but then deciding to drop out to build this... what was your level of confidence knowing that you felt like "I have something here that I really need to go after"?
Dawson Chen: Yeah, I mean this summer when my co-founders and I got together, we actually applied to Y Combinator with a different idea. We were doing like a customer service chatbot for grocery stores. So you walk into Whole Foods and you, you scan a QR code and you ask like "where are the carrots" and like "how much can I buy with like $5 or something" and that like customer service agent will, will lead you around the store and like and tell you things. But it's basically just like a QR code on the wall. So we were doing that idea, and like that's what motivated us to, to do Y Combinator and like actually do a startup. And I think the main, the main motivator for us has always been like the three of us as a team. And like we're all here together at the right time, during like a huge wave of LLM apps. And, and like for us we're like a really good three-person team that also happens to have a lot of background in AI, and it's finally like our time to build something! And we're just like so excited that we can't, we can't wait any longer. Um so, so we started not because of like one particular idea but simply because of like the three of us as a founding team.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, and you're all the same age?
Dawson Chen: Yeah, we're yeah, same age.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, it's probably a tough conversation with your parents. I mean they spent a lot of you know time invested in getting their kids to a point where college is the dream for a lot of parents. And then you come back and say "I made it to college, but I'm going to take some time off and drop out now." Obviously you can go back and finish your degrees. But um, how supportive are your parents in this process?
Dawson Chen: Um they're, they're all relatively supportive because they're all from Silicon Valley. Like we all grew up here so they're all like either at startups or like mid-size companies or big companies. And they all sort of understand. And they understand that like it's like a once in a- lifetime opportunity. And like three of us being together, being at Y Combinator, all these things are like more than we can wish for um as like 19-year-olds. So they're pretty supportive. Um and you know like the... my parents are both working on a startup, so for them it's like um, you know, "We don't have to pay tuition, you're like yourself, like that's great for us! That's great!"
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Really cool. Uh yeah, I think you have, if you have the parent, if your parents are, are currently in startups or have been part of Silicon Valley, they understand the risks and the pros and the cons. What's the advantage you feel as a 19-year-old that you have versus others that are more established in business that might start a, a company in their late 20s, 30s, 40s, even 50s? What's, what advantage, what advantage do you have as being sort of earlier on in your life to build something?
Dawson Chen: I think one, one big thing is we're really flexible. Um both when it comes to product design and also when it comes to just technology. Um we are, we're all like AI researchers, we've all done AI research but in like really different domains. So we're like really used to like switching lanes and like, like learning new technology really fast. So I think like purely in terms of implementation we can move really, really fast, faster than a lot of like veterans at old companies. Um and then for product, I think because we don't have like any like pre-existing experience in an industry for a long time, we're also really good with design and consumer products because that's... we don't have any biases. And we have had some experiences like designing, like uh... but in general I think when you, when you're so like um inexperienced in any like particular space, you end up being able to dream of like different consumer paths a lot easier because you're more flexible. And that, plus our execution and speed um does make it, um give us that advantage I think. And, and like the, the speed also just comes with like us not having many obligations and being able to just like work really hard with like few other considerations like in our daily lives, I guess. No obligations, we just, we can just work um all the time, 24 hours a day.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: I love it. What's um, if you look at you know Silicon Valley and a lot of the big companies around, it seems like they're going after younger and younger talent. The big companies have you been approached by you know Google or Meta or any big companies that kind of have an understanding of who you are and are, maybe have seen or heard about you, they've tried to, to reach out and recruit you or anything like that happen yet?
Dawson Chen: Um, I think it's pretty early for that. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty early for that I think, so haven't, haven't got that yet.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: That's, that's, that's great. Cool. As a company you got seed funding. How many are you today?
Dawson Chen: Um, just the three of us. So we have no employees, just co-founders.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Okay, and coming through COVID like everyone has done, um what's the, what's the impact of that, if at all, of your view on remote work versus on-site? And do you believe that you need to be as a team in a building to really develop? Or you, what's your, what's your mindset around that, just curious.
Dawson Chen: Um yeah, I mean yeah, I would say as much as you can you should obviously like optimize for being in the same building. Like we, you all prioritize like living together, like from when we got into YC we decided like, "okay, let's move into our own space." So like I think you're as co-founders you have to have like, like infinite opportunities to like talk to each other throughout the day. And like you should never have the friction of like "okay, let's set up a meeting to do this." At least in the early days, because things are moving so fast. Like um yeah, yeah, like you learn everything, you learn things every day and you want to share those with your co-founders and brainstorm new ideas like with very little friction. So and as an early stage startup I think you should really live together. Um yeah, yeah, remote work um I don't know, I don't have that much experience in it. I mean dur- during high school we, we had school remote for like one and a half, two years. Um I would say yeah, I, I generally prefer being in person. I, I, I, I think I really prioritize like the face-to-face interactions like if possible. And when you're working so closely to someone, especially at an early stage company, I think every moment of like exchanging your, your thoughts and your feelings is like, should be optimized for. Yeah.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Um that's great. Yeah, I think that there's a lot of debate around on-site versus off-site or remote versus you know collaboration together. Um mainly for people that have been in the industry for quite some time and they saw the difference between what you have when you need to be in an office (it might not be your company so you're just an employee) and the trade-off of working with your family and your kids and you know sort of more established. It's uh, I think some got the experience of what it could be like not having to be in an office every day and they really liked it. And others I think more earlier stage... yeah there's a lot of innovation that you might lose or speed of collaboration you know with ideas that can kind of be lost if you remote from what we hear. But that's great. Yeah, I think that's really um, I think you're in a great position to really build what you want. And if you've got people in the same building, especially if they're living with you, I mean I think I don't know how much more you can optimize around that.
Dawson Chen: Yeah, I think it's like we're given such a great opportunity to live together in the Bay Area, like the best place to work on it, and our parents are all nearby too! Like we're all like a 15-minute drive from home, so we really have like both the family thing and the working collaboration thing I think. So yeah, I think we, we might move to SF though because we think like there is even more startup community there in the like the next couple months. So that might be something new we do. And I think like another big part of doing a startup is you need to have like a really good community near you. Because it's such a like lonely or like um fraud, like journey in the cold if, if you don't have any community. So that's something that it would be nice. I mean YC has been amazing for that, um but to have that going forward I think it'd be nice for us to be in SF.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, we just had another guest on the podcast that was in the same building structure as OpenAI. They were a small company, but literally like the wall behind them was AI. And they saw Sam Altman walking in and out all the time, and you know, it's a different um structure of how you know they operate and everything's tightly secured and you know security guards the building and everything. So but everyone you know, at least in that facility, were, were on-site and in person. Um what's your thought about OpenAI as a company and um do you interact with them a lot? Do you have any relationships there, um the technology you're using today, like anything that overlaps?
Dawson Chen: Yeah, of course. I mean I think they're, they're a great company. Like they've enabled so many startups to create many new products for the world. And like that's undeniably like an amazing, amazing impact. I mean, and we have spoken to Sam Altman at YC, like he's come to some events. And I think um yeah, yeah, the way that they're tackling it as like a hard tech research company, like they're definitely going to be like the pioneers of like intelligence AGI. And I think they've opened up a bunch of new use cases for it, um which it's up to startups to capture those. And um yeah, it's definitely like, we, we keep like a close relationship with them and with their technology because um it's at the core of like this whole new wave of large language models. And like obviously there's a lot to learn from them um just about the technology. And like uh like where the core technology is going to evolve in the coming months, I think that's something that we, we will have to look to OpenAI for. Um because uh you know there are a lot of product innovations that, that we have to do and a lot of like adjacent like core technology such as like um you know our, our voice layer or, or other integrations and, and how to get those right. Like there are so many challenges around that, and the core part I think we will learn a lot from OpenAI. So yeah, we love hearing from them.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, really cool. Um you're very open about talking about your company and the product you're bringing into market, and I think it's, that's the right way to do it. Some companies in there are very closed off to wanting to share what they're building and how they're building it and the markets they're going into. What's the advantage of being very open-minded and sharing and communicating what you, what you're working on? It's not quite you know hitting the target for maybe the, the big audience you're looking for, versus kind of holding it back and trying to kind of work in stealth mode.
Dawson Chen: Yeah, I, I, I really do believe in being open about your company when you're building it. Um there are a lot of different reasons I think, well of course you will, you open yourself up to so many more opportunities to like learn from people and to help people. Like people will reach out for help as they hear about you and they'll reach out with help and for help. And I think both of those are really important for the startup community. Like, like you, I think when we start doing a startup we always acknowledge at the beginning that this is going to be a really tough road ahead and we're going to need a lot of help like to get to product-market fit and to get to a, building a big company. And you just have to be really generous with giving to people like where, wherever you can. Because like that's the only way that you, that it's, that you can, you can, you can make your own life work, is if you can get a lot of help from people like in the future. So that would be the main thing. And I think in general, um like this is like a Paul Graham essay from a while back that I really liked, which, something, something like "why it's safe to be like generous as a founder." And I think I, I really believe that even if like you're not a shrewd businessman and you don't like squeeze every dollar of price out of your, your customers... like what, what eventually will define you is your growth rate and how, how much your customers actually love your product. And like if, if you squeeze a little bit more price out of them, let's say, let's say that's like one way of being a shrewd businessman, um I, I don't think that'll like make a huge difference. It's just like a mul-... I think Paul Graham put it as like it is just a multiplier on like um like your y-intercept, not it, it... like your slope and your, your growth rate is what's going to define your company. And that's what you should focus on.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah that's great. Well talking about price and talking about squeezing you know your customers, if they, if someone wanted to use Martin, how much does it cost? Where do they find it?
Dawson Chen: Yes, so it's on the App Store for free. Um you can just search Martin AI um and it should be the first thing, it's a hexagon. Um and yeah I think for very early stage startups it's about figuring out what the right product is. And, and before you find like what is it exactly that people want, um you don't need to like take, get all the price from them. But it is very helpful to charge people and of course learn like where the need is. So that is something we're always working on is figuring out what is like the eventual business model. Of course like that's something you have to work on.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, well I'm excited to try Martin. If you want to go to the website, is it trymartin.com?
Dawson Chen: Yeah, so you'll see a demo video and the links to the App Store there.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Okay, cool. And then uh I guess if you look at you know 2024, I know you're just getting into the market now uh. Just on the road map, any anything exciting for you what you're continuing to build that you can share?
Dawson Chen: Um one exciting thing that we are exploring, which we're still engaging interest from, is whether like developers want to integrate a Martin-like voice AI into their own applications. So this is something that we've got a lot of people asking us about, but we're not sure if it's something that um is like a big enough need. So this is something we'd love to get more feedback about um but that'll be one thing coming up. Um other than that, the consumer app, there are a lot of improvements um that we're really excited about too.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Well I'm definitely going to try it, and hopefully the data I talk about and share in there you got, hopefully it makes the LLM better for I don't know, for me, for the company, for somebody. But I like the idea of the companion that can help you know the daily things that you know will make my life maybe easier and notifications that will remind me of things that I need to do different tasks. And excited to share that feedback with you too, and also excited to see how things go with your company and check back in in six, 12 months and see the progress you've gained as you continue on your journey. Um as we wrap up here, Dawson, I want to thank you for your time of spending it with us and sharing your story. Sharing your story as well as all of our guests that uh are listening, and it means the world to me of spending your time with us today on this Monday morning. Uh my name is Jake Aaron Villarreal, and uh as we continue to go down our journey of our podcast, look forward to catching you up with everyone on the next episode. Until then, take care.
Before we wrap up, I want to give a big shout out to all the entrepreneurs that have joined to make this podcast possible. And for all the listeners for listening, it means the world to me that you chose to spend your time with us today. I'm your host Jake Aaron Villarreal signing off for now. We can't wait to connect with you all soon on the next episode. Take care.
This show is sponsored by Match Relevant, a company that helps venture-backed startups find the best people in the market. And they do it in three simple steps. First, they sit down with founders to understand their story. Second, they tell their story into multiple candidate channels. And third, they schedule interviews within 48 hours. Find us at matchrelevant.com to learn more about how we do it.
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