Jake Aaron Villarreal: I'm Jake Aaron Villarreal, born and raised in Silicon Valley, and here to take you behind the scenes to show what it's like to be a startup founder. The journey they're on, the problems they face, the products they build in an effort to make our lives better. I'm excited to have with us today Liran Belenzon, co-founder and CEO of BenchSci. Liran, welcome to the show.
Liran Belenzon: Thanks for having me.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: I'm excited to have you on. I know we've gone through a few months of trying to get you on and, you know, we had some things come up—little things like earthquakes and babies being born and all sorts of fun stuff in life. But you're finally here and you've got a great story to tell. So, a little bit more for the audience: Liran is an entrepreneur with degrees in commerce and law who immigrated to Canada to pursue his MBA at the University of Toronto. There, he co-founded BenchSci with three PhD students who are working to discover how AI could solve the declining productivity of drug discovery. Today, BenchSci is an AI-powered platform accelerating drug discovery who have raised over $170 million in funding and are working with 16 of the top pharmaceutical companies and academic institutions globally. I love the background. I love what you guys are building and really the focus where you're at with AI and the niche industries that you're focused in. Before we jump in and talk about you and your story, where are you joining us from today?
Liran Belenzon: Toronto, Canada.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Okay, great. I love Canada. It's a lot happening there in the AI space.
Liran Belenzon: It was invented here. Yeah.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: And you're right in the center of it. So, we'll talk a little bit about that, but I want to really kind of start from the beginning with you. Where did you grow up and what early experiences shaped the path you're on today?
Liran Belenzon: It's a deep question. So I was born in Israel almost, I guess, 39 years ago and I moved to Canada around 10 years ago. For me, I guess what really reshaped my passion for entrepreneurship, which I think is very much tied to my character or values, is the fact that so many generations in my family have been immigrants. It's my grandparents, my parents, now me, my brother as well, he lives in the States. I think the past three generations have immigrated, and someone once told me this, that immigration and entrepreneurship, it's very much similar, where you start something new in the pursuit of a better future and you have to deal with all the challenges that come with that. And usually, at least with my family, you do those moves without any resources and you figure it out as you go. So I think that perseverance, that type of culture... so growing up in Israel, the entrepreneurship and kind of figure it out, deal with what you have and pursue something better, and really build something because it's a relatively young country—it all played a big part of that.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, that's great. My first company I ever worked for in Silicon Valley was an Israeli-based company. And these are his words, the CEO, not mine. But I said, you know, "It's great you came from Israel to the US." Now, I know you're in Canada, but he came to the US and he was saying that, "You know, Jake, I'm from Israel and we really have two things in Israel and a lot of it." And I asked him, "What is that?" He's like, "We have sand and we have brains, and we use both of them very well." So, okay, I want to follow you and let's see what we can build. So, that was a long time ago. They had a lot of success, but I thought you were gonna say war and taxes.
Liran Belenzon: That too. [laughter]
Jake Aaron Villarreal: But anyway, talk a little bit about how you got started in the field you're in. And what was your big break there?
Liran Belenzon: For sure. So you kind of mentioned my background, which is law and business. So I'm obviously not a scientist or technologist or an AI expert. When I moved here—this will also be the family and story of the company—but I moved here also in pursuit of a better future with my girlfriend at the time, who is my wife now and the mother of my three kids. So we were doing long distance for a few years. She's from Toronto, I was in Tel Aviv. We did long distance for two years. Then I decided to move here to be with her. So I had a startup there. We sold the company, I came here, and it was really important for me to immerse myself in the culture and learn more. Doing a local education was something that I saw valuable, so I did my MBA at the University of Toronto.
What I knew back then, and this was roughly almost 11 years ago, is that after my first startup experience, which was just absolutely terrible and I probably did all the mistakes that you can imagine and they were really painful, I knew that I never ever want to do this again. Like, that was very clear for me. And doing my MBA kind of puts you on track of how you're going to be in consulting, which I'm terrible for, or finance, which I'm probably also not right for. So then, towards the end of the first year at the University of Toronto of my MBA, I decided to join this course for second-year students that is about entrepreneurship, but hands-on entrepreneurship, where basically you as an MBA student get assigned to a group of usually scientists who have this wacky idea, and your job is to help them turn that idea into a business. How well you do it, that's how you're graded in the course. But it's also a bit of real life 'cause it's a course, but also you're dealing with a real-life company.
So, I was introduced to the team back then, which were a group of three wacky scientists. I had never met a scientist in my life. They're not wacky, they're very nice people, but for me, I guess I've never seen a scientist before. And I remember meeting our Chief Scientific Officer, Tom, and our co-founder, and he was telling me about the problem and what they're doing. I was blown away because I never heard of it. And in my head, I thought, "How could this be such an important problem and I never heard of it?" Because you know, I think you go and think about the problems or solve the problems that you see or experience. Also with VCs as well, right? They invest sometimes in stuff they know. And I just never knew that there's so many problems in drug discovery, and the decisions that need to be made, and data, and how it's done.
When I met him and the team, I started working with them as an MBA student, but I just became obsessive over it, which is probably also a quality of founders and entrepreneurs. And back then, I don't know why because I've never done this at scale, I thought I can really help the company raise money, or the team raise money, build it into a company, and do something around that, even though, again, I didn't understand AI, or science, or drug discovery, and I had no connections or network here in Canada. Just got off the boat or the plane. Me and my wife were broke, like she was doing her PhD in clinical psychology, I was an MBA student with tons of debt, and I had a job offer. And I was like, "Listen, I really want to do this thing instead." We're down to like our last $2,000 in the bank account. And she was like, "Do you really want to?" But I told her, "I won't do it if you don't think I should, because how are we going to pay rent?" And she was like, "If you really want to do it, do it and we'll figure it out." And yeah, now we're here.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Wow.
Liran Belenzon: I joined the team and we raised and continued, then traveled all around the world and had to move to Montreal for three months to get some money and a bunch of stories along the way.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: It's amazing. Yeah. Getting down to $2,000 is, you know, you want to think about, you know, how can you continue, but you've got to take those chances. And it sounds like there was one more month of rent back then. So, a month of runway.
Liran Belenzon: A month of runway.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: God, I love that. Wow. What a risk. But what a reward here. Talk about the problem that you're solving now then today. I mean, let's fast forward a little bit. You have this idea and kind of walk through the inspiration of that idea and what is it that you guys are solving?
Liran Belenzon: Yeah, I'll oversimplify this, and I simplify everything. That's kind of how I survive personally in the intersection of such a complex space. When you develop drugs, there's really three things you need to get right. You need to understand how the disease works, and that's really the underlying biology. How does this thing even work? Like what's involved? Why? How? Then you have to develop the right drug to treat it, and then you need to make it work in humans. Those are the three kind of building blocks. I would argue we're pretty good at getting drugs to work. We have great hammers and different technologies and so on. Clinical trial failure is roughly 90%. So that's not good. But the number one reason that happens is because we got something wrong in the biology.
So getting the biology right or wrong is really the key contributor to the success of drugs working in humans and treating people who desperately need them. So unraveling disease biology, and it kind of makes sense if you think about it, because if you get the wrong target or you misunderstood something, you put all of your efforts into fixing that, then you come to the end and you say, "Oh, that was actually not the thing that was causing the disease at all," or "There's something here that we didn't take into account," and you just wasted a decade of work and billions of dollars. So that's really where we focus. So how can we apply AI to really unravel and improve understanding of disease biology and at scale so we can make as much impact as we can on the health of our society.
So what's unique about us that we're doing that I think is different than other companies in our space... this entire concept of tech bio, which are basically companies that are applying AI to drug discovery. In the space of companies that are applying AI to understand disease biology, almost all of them are biotech companies, meaning they actually develop some sort of understanding of this biology, usually it's in a knowledge graph, and then they apply that with engineers to find a cure for a specific disease. What we're doing is taking that knowledge graph that we build and productizing it. So basically put it in the hands of every scientist in the world and really act as a co-pilot or assist for them so they can make the best, most efficient decisions as they're trying to navigate and unravel disease biology. So when we work with big pharmaceutical companies, they will basically deploy our co-pilot with their scientists similar to the way that Cursor is deployed with engineers, for example.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: That's great. Wow. So as a co-pilot, if you're in R&D and a scientist and you're trying to figure out like, what's the next drug that we should develop for a specific disease, it takes a lot of man-hours and strategy and brain power. Your technology, your AI co-pilot helps them do their job faster, better... better, faster, cheaper.
Liran Belenzon: So basically what we did was we got access, through partnerships and so on, to the entire history of biomedical research. And what we did then was develop multimodal AI that can basically go to all those research and pull out, and then understand and connect all the evidence and all the insights that we're able to understand as humanity around disease biology. And then we connected everything on a knowledge graph with a really high level of veracity. And then through a deep understanding of the different workflows that scientists do, whether they're forming hypotheses, or planning experiments, or doing risk assessment, or trying to uncover novel relationships between how does this drug relate to this disease or vice versa, and so on and so on... we're able to serve them either novel insights that no one has known before because of the way we connected the knowledge graph, or give them an answer immediately if something would have taken them two weeks to do, or help them avoid going down different rabbit holes, or even help them reduce the amount of money they're spending on designed experiments.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: How big is the company today in terms of employees?
Liran Belenzon: Roughly 350.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Okay. Yeah, 350 employees. I'm assuming maybe a large percentage of scientists and technologists.
Liran Belenzon: Yeah, roughly 70% of the company I would say.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Okay, great. The product is being built really from technologists and scientists' insight and input. What can you visually kind of walk us through, since we're not able to log into a screen, like what it looks like? Is it just a web app that you can log in and see data and graphs and make sense of that, or is it different?
Liran Belenzon: Yeah, there's different experiences within the app. There's GUI interfaces, I guess the "I" means interface, and that can be in the form of knowledge graph visualizations, scientific figures, have a chat interface as well as one of our features, report summarization to support decisions in the organization, tables, charts... you want to basically understand the data and even look at the source data, which is something that's very important for us, is traceability and explainability. So everything that AI recommends or shares, you can actually view the raw source data that actually supports that insight.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: That's great. Did you start this prior to ChatGPT hitting the market in terms of just the visibility of...
Liran Belenzon: Way before. We've been around for 10 years almost next year. I think next year will be... let's see, we raised in 2016 and our first product brought it to market in 2017, so let's say eight years. So we really kind of had to reinvent ourselves and go all in on generative AI as a company a few years ago when it all started.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: And how has that changed the company?
Liran Belenzon: It changed our offering in the market, changed behavior in the market, competitiveness in the market. It changed demand in the market. Everything went up. Competition, demand, and so on. We had to learn obviously in our engineering team and so on in terms of how to apply this technology very early on and make the right decisions in a very fast-moving pace. And I think right now for us as a company, obviously being a company that builds generative AI, we as employees are also adopters of AI and we really implement it in how we work. For example, this is not even me right now. This is a generative AI version of...
Jake Aaron Villarreal: It's your digital twin. I love it.
Liran Belenzon: I'm joking. But all jokes aside, we really try and implement it as much as we can to become more productive and make more of an impact.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, that's really great. You know, we're seeing all sorts of changes in the world and politics and just in general industries, and what are the changes, the macro changes that you're seeing influencing or impacting you or, you know, in the space you're in?
Liran Belenzon: For sure. So I think everything that impacts our customers impacts us. So our customers are pharmaceutical companies and the ecosystem around that. Meaning things like tariffs. Tariffs on pharmaceuticals, and a lot of companies manufacture in China and other places in the world. So that has a big impact. All the cuts for research funding, whichever reason that is, let's say the encampments, that actually impacts us as well because it impacts our customers and providers of our customers. Because if you don't fund the research, you don't spend as much money, the insights of those don't get to pharma that then turns into a drug discovery project. There is that, there's the entire FDA changes, NIA changes, vaccines, all of those as well. And of course, there is generative AI that is a really amazing technology that is used I think by many, many people in non-complex tasks or non-complex fields, and we're doing a translation of that technology to probably one of the most complex spaces in the world. So I think it also moved customer expectations in terms of capabilities of technology, probably at a pace that's faster than the technology itself, if that makes sense what I'm trying to say.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, makes total sense. You know, obviously a risk taker, you're down to $2,000 as you were looking to start, and you've scaled it up and had a lot of success so far. Challenges that go through and any company that's building and growing... and you're an optimist. I could tell just in our conversation. What's the biggest challenge, after everything you just kind of shared, that the company is going through today or you're working to figure out?
Liran Belenzon: What's my greatest challenge? I don't know if it's our specific challenge, but something I think a lot about is just focus. Focus of everybody. Focus of customers, focus of teams. Because there's so many things you can do with such novel technology that is so interesting and you can take things in so many different directions. Ideas are endless. "We can do this. What about this? And then this feature, that feature," and so on, and so on, and so on, because there's so many new tools and amazing things we can do. Right now, just being focused in terms of what's a priority, what's going to drive the most impact to our customers... even with our customers, what's going to drive the most impact to their business as well.
I'll answer a different question though. If I talk about not at BenchSci, what's the I think hardest thing about entrepreneurship? It's just keep going. Just keep going. Especially if you've been doing it for a while now, and I guess I'm getting to... I've been doing this for over 10 years, and I guess more with before I started BenchSci, is just keep going. 'Cause if you think about the past five years... not even, yeah, five years. I thought about it the other day. The greatest pandemic in pretty much history. The biggest shift in workplace culture from in-person to remote in history, I would argue. The biggest technological innovation of all time with generative AI. And I don't know where we're going right now with all the tariffs and everything happening on a geopolitical stage, but it's kind of wild if you think about it, just in the last couple of years, everything that's happened.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: It's really wild and doesn't seem like it's slowing down anytime soon. So, if you think about the company, that's one aspect, but how about your life? You know, what's life like for you when you're trying to figure out the personal life balance and the work-life balance, and is there a balance?
Liran Belenzon: Yeah. So, I'm grateful. Another thing that happened in the last, I guess, five, five and a half, six years is I have three kids throughout the process. So, yeah. I wake up every day saying thank you for what I have. Kids really give you perspective. And I also come, I guess to your first question about my childhood and values, my parents grew up in Soviet Russia. So I guess I was never allowed to really complain as a kid. It's like, "This happened? Well, at least you're healthy. Well, we have a roof." So my wife hates it because I never let her complain. It was like, "What? Everyone does." So for me, I wake up in the morning, I have my beautiful wife, I have my beautiful kids. Like, I'll manage everything else. It's okay. And I think just perspective is so important. It's so important because just things scale as you said, like things are really complex, especially when you care so much. There's lots of emotions in you.
But you can't bring those to the table 'cause you can't do your job if you do, right? Like a surgeon doesn't bring their emotions to the table, right? A professional athlete, no. Because they have to do their job and bring all of that. Especially in such turbulent times like the past five years that's happening in the world and so many changes. You have to remain very clinical and calm around situations so you can bring your best skills to the table. Yeah. Very, very important.
And to your question about balance, which I think that's actually what you asked and I never answered. Um, there's no balance, like there's no 50% here and then 50% there. You just figure out how you make everything work and you take the wins that you can on both sides and you decide what are the non-negotiables that you're not going to give up no matter what. And for me, it's like the birthdays of my kids, my wife, they're booked in my calendar like years in advance and I know that that is there no matter what. I know that in summertime to try and travel less because I live in Canada and it's the only time we can spend outside with my family. If I'm on the road for a long time or I have a crazy time at work, I make sure I ask my EA to "Hey, very immediately after, book this day off so I can spend time with them." I take my kids to school every day almost... when I'm here I take them to school every day. And like we have those mornings, but it also means I wake up at 5 a.m. to do other stuff. So just try and balance everything, or just kind of juggle everything more than balance everything.
And also, I guess I'm getting a bit older. But we talked about before why we couldn't meet. So I had pneumonia twice for the past four months. And I was like, "Hey, I guess like for me, even there's so much I can push in terms of how much I can work," which I think is different than it was when I started a company 10 years ago. And just try to understand also my limits and make sure I take care of myself. Like sleep. I exercise when I can, but I've learned that sleep is probably the most important thing. And also trying to understand that it's not exactly hours that equal impact or how hard you work. And it really depends, sometimes like the intensity level is so high. If you're raising money, or negotiating a really big deal with a customer, or going through a big change in the company and so on, like the intensity is so high that the amount of hours you work are not comparable. So, just really trying to stay tuned to everything that's going on in your life and take it pretty much week by week. Especially, I have three young kids, so it's week by week and then go from there.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, I've got two young kids, so sometimes it's hour by hour, but yeah, I hear what you're [laughter] hear what you're saying. Let's switch gears a little bit to the company itself in terms of the team. You've, you know, hired hundreds of people as an entrepreneur and maybe some lessons that you can share with other listeners that are also building their companies. Hiring a great team is essential for a great company. What's a lesson or some lessons you've learned about recruiting that you wish you would have known before you started your business?
Liran Belenzon: It's an interesting question. I think I would give you a different answer depending on the stage of the company, but maybe I'll give maybe three insights if I did it all over again. When we got started, we hired like really inexperienced people, like literally right out of school, and we were optimizing for cost.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Mhm.
Liran Belenzon: So that was potentially a mistake. It depends on the space, but potentially a mistake that cost us a lot more down the road. So maybe finding the Goldilocks solution and the right solution between how much you want to spend and the seniority of the initial employee that you want to hire. That is one. Two, which I think should be common sense and a known practice, which is hire people for the stage that you're at and maybe 18 months ahead, but don't get over your skis, because it's not about who is better. Who is better, a CRO that runs a multi-billion dollar company early on, or someone who did hundreds of people? Neither probably is going to work for the other company. So even when you're small, and usually it happens with sales, "Oh like we got our first million, now we want to grow it to 10 and this CRO has grown this company to half a billion dollars." They're probably going to suck at your company. And the first question I would ask is "Like, when did they join? Did they join at 20 or at one?" Right? So you need to make sure you hire the people that are right for you now, right? And have the right experience.
And the third thing... so those two pieces of advice I would say probably the earlier stage from Seed to A. And then as you get to B, C, D, and so on... and this is probably 2021, 2022 advice when everything was just people were throwing money at startups, is the scaling of hiring. Like, we through COVID went from like 50 people to 350 over two years.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Wow.
Liran Belenzon: Yeah. And that was a crazy time because everything was remote, and Canada, or Toronto specifically, was on lockdown the longest in all of North America. We were on lockdown for two years.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Okay.
Liran Belenzon: So everything was remote, and it got to a place where someone new was hiring someone new, and you completely don't even know who joins your company anymore, and you completely lose the initial culture and everything that happened. So, and the thing is you don't see the impact of that probably until a few years in the future, or many months in the future, and the reason that happens is something that happened a very long time ago in the past. So just when those things actually materialize that you can see them as a problem and when they kind of make their way into your organization. Those are the three key points for me.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's really valuable to understand where a company's at in the life cycle of their growth. You know, starting as a startup or an infant and then all the way through becoming a teenager or adult and, you know, retire, and where the company is at in its growth stage too. Are they early stage, are they funded, what do they need and when, and then being able to map that together. So I think that's really a smart way to do it. You talked about in those kind of mid-years where VC firms are just throwing money at AI companies or just startups in general... easier to get funding. Today it's a little bit different, but what would be your advice on founders that are looking to raise capital? Like what's your biggest insight that you've learned that has helped you succeed there?
Liran Belenzon: It's simple, which is tell a very compelling story. And I think there's a very clear formula on how to do it and probably many do that right, but what I see so many people do wrong probably the most is they don't run a tight process. And there's a way of raising money and it's not "Go talk to investors for six months and see who's going to bite." That's not how you raise money. I wrote a bunch of blog posts about this. It's something I became good over the years, one of the things at least I'm good at, which is the fundraising process itself. So I learned that from one of our investors very early on. In my opinion, there's no reason why it should take more than 3, 4 weeks to get a term sheet, even in this environment, if you run a proper process and do it properly.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, that's great. A tight process is important. So, we'll have to get your links on your blog posts to dive into the details there. That sounds really valuable. As a company, it often times either goes north or south depending on how you operate it. And if it's going well, it evolves. As a leader, you also have to evolve, too. What's kind of your big breakthrough as a leader that you've learned as you've kind of grown to be able to manage a 350-person organization today?
Liran Belenzon: I think it's different every year. Um, I'm not the same person. It's very much tied to also which kind of person you are. It's hard to separate the two things and not bring stuff that you develop in your personal life to work, and skills, qualities develop and work in your personal life. So it's easier to just merge the two together than you have to be two different people. I think it's always interesting as the company grows, as the complexity grows with it, of taking yourself to the next level.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Mhm.
Liran Belenzon: I think there's two ways to do that, and I'm lucky to have both. One of them was advice I got from another founder, which is every year he writes down, "How am I unrecognizable in 12 months from now?" That was spot on. So I do that. And two is to have really great colleagues, board members, and so on that really act as a mirror. They just call you out. "Hey, you're not showing up properly," or "Hey, to take yourself to the next level, here's what you need to do." I know I'm Israeli, but I actually listen when people give me advice. Maybe that's my Canadian side now. And I have just the ability to implement those fairly fast. Where I lack sometimes, maybe my self-awareness is not good enough, I can just make the adjustments fairly fast. But the interesting thing about leadership I think is sometimes maybe you have to act in kind of historical ways... change it up depending on the situation. Like people talk about wartime, peacetime CEO. When things go up to the right, when they go south, when they go east, when they go west. So I don't think there's always one way at any time. I think there are probably some things that don't change: don't lose it, be a good person, be the calm leader, be an energy giver, be positive, be the calm in the storm, and all of those things. But sometimes just different leadership qualities you want to bring depends on the context of the specific situation.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, that's hard, right? That's why there's so many business books and leadership books. Yeah, adaptability based on the situation or circumstance. So, yeah, I totally agree with that. You know, looking back now 10 years prior to starting the company, what's something you wished you would have known or someone would have given you some advice about that you would have had before you started the company you thought would have been valuable?
Liran Belenzon: If advice is all that was necessary to avoid mistakes, then great. But probably not. So, it's probably... would I have listened as well? Interesting. Hiring is one of them. Potentially staying closer to certain staff that I haven't stayed closer to throughout the years. Holding more accountable from day one. That's I think comes with being a younger founder when you hire more senior people, right? That's kind of probably some of the early mistakes. Potentially areas where we scaled too fast that we didn't need to. I think everybody's to blame on that in the past couple of years, right? From small to big, from experienced to inexperienced.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah.
Liran Belenzon: Yeah. Those are probably the two biggest things.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah. Yeah. We've gone through some of those ourselves, you know, as leaders, and you bring on people and maybe they have more experience and you're, you know, assuming they can do what they can do better than anyone else and not calling them out, not holding them accountable, not managing the right way. Like, all those things you learn from mistakes and you evolve, but ultimately you run a better company once you go through that. So, of course. Yeah, I agree with all those. As you look at 2025, we're coming up to the middle of that already. What's on the roadmap? What are you excited about as you continue to build your company?
Liran Belenzon: Yeah. So, we're really all in on generative AI. So, we are kind of completing this wind on that, which is really exciting, and then taking that to the next level. Uh, we have some exciting partnerships that we're working on, acquiring more customers, and doing more deployments of our software and just seeing the impact. It's something that's really phenomenal. And then start thinking about kind of what's next on the roadmap and where the world is going, especially with the AI agentic ecosystem, and really being a thought leader and a pioneer in our space.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah. Well, that's great. Well, excited to see what happens in the future and the drugs that are being created that are going to help protect and solve the problems that humanity has today. You know, you have a footprint in that process, and excited to see the results as we continue to evolve as a world and as humanity, and hopefully it'll be less disease and more solutions that help eradicate them. So excited to hear more in the future. If anyone wants to find you, Liran, or find BenchSci, where do they go?
Liran Belenzon: Canada. Go north if you're in America. They can go on the website. It's benchsci.com.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Very cool. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show. Really appreciate sharing your story and hearing it and understanding where things are in the world with AI in different sectors. And thanks for the listeners for listening. It means a lot to me. You spent your time with us today. I'm your host Jake Aaron Villarreal signing off for now, but can't wait to catch up with you all on the next episode. Until then, Liran, the world. Take care. If you like what we're doing, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen, and follow us on YouTube where we go behind the scenes to learn what it takes to be a startup founder.
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