XSET's Greg Selko on Redefining Gaming Culture & Building a Lifestyle Brand

Jake Aaron Villarreal: I'm Jake Aaron Villarreal, born and raised in Silicon Valley and here to take you behind the scenes to share what it's like to be a startup founder, the journey they're on, the problems they face, and the products they build in an effort to transform industries. I'm excited to have with us today Greg Selkoe, the co-founder and CEO of XSET. Greg, welcome to the show.

Greg Selkoe: Great to be here.

Jake Aaron Villarreal: Great. A little bit about Greg. He leads the company's vision of creating a gaming lifestyle brand and media company that redefines the digital landscape connecting with the physical world. Prior, he created Karmaloop, a venture he nurtured from a fledgling startup into a streetwear retail titan, amassing over 1 billion in lifetime revenue under his tenure as CEO. He holds an MBA from Harvard, and we're happy to have him on the show today. Before we get started here, Greg, where you... where are you calling in from?

Greg Selkoe: I am calling in from Boston, although the company's headquarters is in Boston, there's only about four of us here and uh everyone else is in LA.

Jake Aaron Villarreal: When I started this podcast, I had this vision to go behind the scenes to share what it's like to be a startup founder in Silicon Valley, where I'm born and raised. And weekly, we dive deep in the trenches to find the wins, the losses, and the lessons learned with the hopes that it helps you run a better startup. But here's the thing. If you've gotten any value out of these conversations or been inspired at all, hit the subscribe button. And I get it, your podcast feed's probably overflowing. But to stay up to date what's going on in Silicon Valley, stick with us because at the end of the day, we're all just trying to build something that matters and we're better when we do it together. So, hit that subscribe button and follow us wherever you find your podcasts. Now, let's get back to the show.

Gotcha. Well, it's good to uh to have you on here. You know, we work with a lot of companies that are building technology and some of them are building services. Uh, we're going to talk about your company, XSET. But before we do that, give us a little background of kind of you, your origin story, where kind of where you grew up and what was your path to get into technology? How'd that happen?

Greg Selkoe: Yeah. So I I grew up here in Boston. Um, you know, uh, growing up I was definitely... technology was something that I was interested in, computers. But you know, for me the the sort of cultural community of break dancing, hip-hop, electronic music, skateboarding, punk, rock, subcultures was really... had a profound impact on me growing up and was always fascinated by all of that. And uh also I was super interested in the built environment, you know, buildings and urban planning, stuff like that. Uh didn't wind up doing that, but uh my first job out of out of high... out of college was actually doing urban planning for the city. But um you know, to me the internet's birth just provided the opportunity to take some of these cultures that I love and use technology to uh you know, share them really and go beyond just sort of their very small niche audiences and sort of build an amalgamation of things that I thought were cool or interesting. And that was manifested in in initially in clothing, but obviously in gaming and uh music and and art, entertainment, which is a big part of what we do now. Kind of being authentic to uh like a a real fascination and drive and interest in in pop culture, you know, even things like anime and vinyl figures. It all it all can be amplified through technology and through the web.

Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah. You know, you bring up a lot of points. I've got a couple little kids. We talked about this in our last call where, you know, for them it's all about what they see is what they want, and it's with either on YouTube or gaming or some level of digital asset that they feel they're involved in and want to be a part of. Um, I like the space that you're in. Talk a little bit about what prompted you to start the company and how are you different from the company? And I guess really kind of give us the high level of what exactly XSET is.

Greg Selkoe: Yes. So I'll start with saying what XSET is on a a very high level and then I hopefully as we talk it will be more fleshed out and and understood. We we look at ourselves as a gaming lifestyle brand and media company. And you know, if you look at uh lots of different cultures, uh skateboarding, hip-hop, um you know, they start out as like a music and and as an action sport, but culture was born and built around them. As as there became sort of natives in those spaces and as um you know that meant words, that meant fashion, uh that meant uh different uh influences from other cultures that were... could reappear. Um and gaming's no different. Gaming... there's three billion people that game worldwide. Um, and there's a number of subcultures that have kind of sprung up around certain genres of games. And that translates into who who people date and what movies they watch or what shows they watch or what YouTubers they watch or what content creators they watch or what clothing brands they like or what musical artists uh, you know, they discover through gaming. Um, so there's a lot of ways that gaming connects uh to the to to people's lifestyle. So that's essentially what we're building. We we're a brand that means something in in the gaming world. And we create content. Uh we create products, merchandise like this shirt I'm wearing. And we create events and uh you know cultural moments both online and offline. And I don't remember, the second part of the question was how we're different. Was that the second part?

Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah. I mean I think about a company like yours and I say what's a competitor to what you're doing? Who can we look at and say, "Oh, this company does X, Y, and Z. That sounds like... now I understand what you do and how you can do things differently or maybe the same."

Greg Selkoe: Yeah. So, a lot of times I'll start with the people that we're kind of compared to most and why we don't think we're the same and then I'll talk about some other companies in uh different um genres that we look at as much more similar from a from a model perspective. Um, so like if you look at the folks that we get comped to most often are e-sports teams and other sort of e-sports content creator uh organizations. They're called gaming orgs. Um, you know, there's folks like 100 Thieves or FaZe Clan. These are uh stuff maybe you're not as familiar with, but they're world famous uh gaming teams and and gaming content creator uh organizations. Um, and while we have some similarities with with them, one of our biggest differences, and there's millions of these groups, there's Liquid, there's Cloud9, there's there's dozens and dozens, and some of them are valued, you know, in the hundreds of millions of dollars. And but primarily those groups really focus on competitive gaming. And to to a lesser extent 100 Thieves and and FaZe Clan, but they also uh still have a huge portion of their time and focus on competitive gaming. And they have some content creators and they do some lifestyle stuff. It just so happens I I co-ran FaZe Clan and and was president there and had a big part in sort of their evolution into sort of uh a quasi gaming lifestyle brand. Um but with XSET, while we have some similarities on the on the content creator side, we're pretty much not in e-sports. Although we dabble a little bit, there's three billion people game worldwide. Like I said, um the vast majority of those people are not actually focused on e-sports. However, most of the money and the time and the companies focus on e-sports, which is probably, you know, 10-15% of that audience actually cares about competitive e-sports. Um, and so that's where we we really look at how we're different and and how we're different is that, you know, we look at ourselves much more uh akin to like a Barstool Sports or a Bleacher Report or Overtime or even Outside, a two billion dollar brand that came out of the outdoors, or Outside magazine. I always forget which one it is, but essentially they have content creators who focus on things like, you know, rock climbing and and outdoor activities. They sell merchandise. Um they are a hub for people who love outdoor culture, right? So, we're a hub for people who love gaming culture and we look at gaming culture from the casual gamer's perspective. Um and that's really where does gaming intersect with music, fashion, art, and entertainment. Been using those words a lot because it's it's super uh important. Um, you know, everyone's a gamer nowadays and uh we have a number of of famous athletes and musicians who game under our banner. And they may be well known for other things but they're also authentically love gaming and they want to do things in gaming culture and when they do they work with XSET.

Jake Aaron Villarreal: That's great. As you look at the company itself, what's... and you mentioned a few different areas that you focus on. What's the business model? Where do you make money?

Greg Selkoe: Yeah. So essentially, you know, content drives everything, right? So if you look at, if you looked at sort of uh you know the hub of what we do, you would look at content, right? So what, what what do I mean by content, is that you know I'm sure your kids would be familiar with people like MrBeast or Dude Perfect. Dude Perfect, by the way, just raised a hundred million dollars, and their revenue model, kind of the things they do. Although, you know, they're more narrowly focused and we're a little broader in terms of gaming, and they're more focused on basketball lifestyle, basketball trick shots, things like that. The way they monetize is is very similar. So, the content builds the audience, right? People, we have a number of folks that are very famous content creators in gaming. And these are folks that are not necessarily the best at the game, although some of them are, but they have personalities, right? So they... but a lot of these guys they, and guys, I mean men and women, they stream on Twitch, they create content on TikTok, they create content on YouTube. And so people get to know our brand because these people are associated with our brand. They're part of XSET. They represent XSET. They wear merchandise. They talk about XSET and they create content around XSET. So people, that's how, that's the sort of propagation of the brand.

And then we monetize around that content. Sometimes directly through the content where a brand sponsors the content or there's advertising or things like that. And then also through marketing campaigns that we use our content's talent in. We've done stuff with JBL. We've done stuff with the NFL, the Red Sox. We've done stuff with uh you know, large consumer product uh brand that we're about to announce soon. We've done stuff with NBA Summer League. We just did a big content series there. So basically, we just cover and film content and advertisers pay us to get exposure to our audience. And the reality is, if you're a large consumer brand, uh, or you're, you know, a legacy sports brand, the next generation of fans or consumers are gamers. Everyone in Gen Z games and and and Gen Alpha. And if you don't understand how to reach them where they are because they're not watching TV, um, you're not gonna, you're not going to be able to get that next generation of fans and consumers. And so why people work with XSET is we'll do a number of things to activate them in in our in in our audience. Whether it's creating advertorial content or or branded content, whether it's having activations and parties and events uh with our with our gamers, with with uh other famous athletes, celebrities, whether it's doing streaming with them, um we we provide different ways to reach the consumer in an authentic way. Um, and you know, if they try to do it on their own, frankly, most of them have no clue what's going on in in gaming culture and they can't do it effectively. And so, you know, we're already out there making culture, doing things in the gaming community, um and they'll pay for access.

But you know, we're very careful about who we work with, what brands we think are cool, and how we position the brand so that it will resonate with our audience in a way that will actually create adoption and and the audience will think is cool and not feel like it's just, you know, an ad, by we, we do, you know, really interesting and unique activations with brands. I can give you some examples, but a lot of times we set up a gaming lounge. Uh we do giveaways. Uh we'll we'll pull in musical artists and gamers to uh you know do activationsly where they they create content for the brand. We do giveaways. A lot of different a lot of different uh fun ways to integrate and reach the gaming community and we get paid for that.

Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, that's great. You know, when you talk about gaming, I think about game publishers. I think about companies that are building the games and you know, everyone is playing the games. What's the relationship with the gaming publishers if at all?

Greg Selkoe: Yeah, so we have a we have a good relationship with the gaming publishers and we work, you know, I think when you talk about what's different about XSET compared to some of our predecessors in the in the space or some companies that kind of came before us or maybe still exist. There was a lot of times there were adversarial relationships between the e-sports teams and the game publishers um or or or the folks who were creating content. They didn't create content that was brand safe and uh you know there was there's been and continues to be a lot of issues around toxicity, racism, sexism, homophobia, stuff like that. Uh you know by by folks who are playing the game. And the reason why that matters is when people game, they don't game in their basement by themselves. Gaming is now a communal global activity, right? You know there there's... right as we speak there's 70 million people playing Fortnite, right? And there's stars in the in the Fortnite world who have huge audiences watching them game on Twitch, right? So a guy like Clix, who's our biggest Fortnite star, you know, he could have 40, 50,000, 60,000 kids watching him play the game, right? And he's talking, he's interacting with the fans while he's playing. So if if if if you know, if that person who's now a celebrity with the, you know, is associated with the game is doing things that are offensive or or negative, that that reflects negatively on the game.

So we're, while we like to look at ourselves as... we kind of call ourselves the baddest good guys on the planet. Meaning we still have swagger, we still have style. We can still be edgy. We're not telling our gamers not to to to be themselves, but we're also try to be the good guys and we try to not stand against some of the the worst elements of that toxicity. And because of that, the game publishers like us because the game publishers, just as just as we need the games to to facilitate facilitate what we do, they need us because they need the players. They need the you know, just like any any business, right? There's winners and losers. There's lots of people publishing games. Some games are successful. Some games are successful, they get old. Then they re... they launch a new version and become successful again. Sometimes they launch a new version and it fails. It's a constant churning and movement of these games all competing to to maintain an excitement and and players and interest from the community. So, you know, we've built relationships where we've done things like build, you know, digital skins or maps in the game. So, our branding's in the game or our our our celebrities, gamers are, have skins in the game. Um, we've done merchandise collaborations with uh with game publishers. We've got a big one coming out uh with a massive game that's going to be really cool where we're going to do both digital items in the game and also the physical items that you can buy that match what you have in the, what the character can wear in the game.

So, we're we're an opportunity for the the game publishers to build audience, build excitement. Um, and in some ways, we can put our thumb on the scale a little bit on on what games we think are cool. Um you know, we tend to be uh focused on you know a lot of you know Grand Theft Auto, you know, Fortnite, Warzone which is Call of Duty, 2K. But you know, you know, we've got guys like Bryson who's a Web3 game uh player... you know any we have folks that are called like variety streamers, they stream and interact with different games. So you know we're a part and part of the ecosystem and I'm not saying we're the only one, but we're one that you know because I think we have a unique ability to both understand culture and youth culture and be authentic, but also understand what works in business and what can and can't be done. You know, when you're trying to build a uh a brand uh out there and you know, you're a large publisher, in some cases, you're a public company, and you don't, you know, you got to be careful on on what you do in in this space because you got a lot of kids who are speaking freely and and and creating content. We're very good at sort of navigating that world. That doesn't mean we haven't, you know, for, knock on wood, we've never had a a major scandal or issue. I mean, if we did, we I think we're in a way that we're prepared to deal with it. If someone who's someone who represents XSET, gamer, creating content does something inappropriately, it does something inappropriate or says something inappropriate, obviously, we'll uh terminate them. They won't be part of the organization. But fortunately, we have not had uh any major... we've had our issues, but nothing major. There's been a number of examples of other organizations including um some of the biggest having really uh brand safety issues uh around that that spooks publishers. It spooks you know advertisers, and we're we're we're good at navigating that space.

Jake Aaron Villarreal: That's great. We talked a little bit about the gaming publishers. Talk about the influencers. Talk about the gamers themselves. How do you find them? What's in it for them?

Greg Selkoe: Well, I mean the the the goal is hopefully that, you know, if they're working with us, it's a symbiotic relationship where we're both growing larger, right? Our brand XSET is, you know, cool. We're able to work with a lot of great consumer brands. We're also able to work with really cool clothing brands. We just did an advertising campaign with Nike. We've done something with Gatorade. Did a number of stuff with cool streetwear brands like Mastermind Japan and Roots Canada that we have our second collab coming. So all, once they come into our world, we tie them into all these different things. The ability to um you know, build out if they want to build out their own consumer uh you know products brand, or if they want to do stuff in um you know the fashion space or the streetwear space, we can help them with that. We can pair our two uh you know two or three of our stars together to create content. Like we, Clix who's our biggest you know streamer and and and our you know biggest sort of pure-play gaming star, he's done stuff with Tee Grizzley who's a huge rapper who's also part of XSET, who's a a streamer. They did a a Fortnite stream together on a map that Tee Grizzley created with Snoop Dogg's company Death Row Gaming. Um you know we've done stuff with CashNasty who's a big 2K creator and Clix. So we, we facilitate these opportunities. We also have, you know, brand deals, like we we we've done a bunch of things with Amazon Studios and MGM around movie releases. We tie our talent in. They get to go to the, you know, the premiere. They get to go to our events and our parties and we help get them, you know, hopefully help get them deals around getting skins in the game. And so, you know, their association with XSET helps us, and our and their their association with XSET helps them as well.

Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah. God, it's such an interesting model because you have so many different variables that they're opportunities that can drive value to a brand or to a publisher or to an influencer. And ultimately it's bringing awareness to games, to people, to a lot of areas that brands can tie into. Why is this space so important to you?

Greg Selkoe: Well, I mean, I've, as I as I said in the beginning, I've always been interested in in in in in cultures, and, you know, I've been I've gamed my whole life, but, you know, I'm a little bit older than our our demo. So, you know, gaming really evolved with the focus just being on the game to, you know, where we are today, where, you know, the game is one part of it, but it's the the social connection. Um, it's the culture that's built up around it. You know, people who game will have friends all over the world. They may be playing with someone in Hong Kong, Des Moines, Iowa, and Manchester, England, right? And they they game on a regular basis because it's all online. It's all all virtual. Um, and so there's a lot of cultural cross-pollination. And so to me, you know, you got to go where people are, where the eyeballs are. This is where it is, right?

And I love the idea of continually pushing the envelope in terms of with when we, when you integrate new technologies like AI and other things, and seeing the cultural uh you know, developments that come out of it, and how it changes musical tastes and clothing tastes and um you know it it brings people together. Uh you know, at its best it brings people together and its worst it can be reflect the worst of you know humanity pre pre the digital world right? But we kind of like to be a force to kind of, you know, both, you know, have fun and sort of push uh, you know, culture forward, but also try to be, you know, uh, a force that does things that are good and really tells folks like, "Hey, if you're a gamer, gaming is not just gaming. It's also interacting in the world and how you see the world and all the different other things that, uh, you know, gaming can connect you to."

Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah.

Greg Selkoe: So to me to me that's exciting and and it's fun and you know it's it's it's you know it's a, I get to get up every day and be involved in gaming, right? That's not a, that's not a, it's not a bad thing to to spend your time and involved in and and and also involved in larger pop culture which is fun.

Jake Aaron Villarreal: Really an influence in pop culture which is I think amazing. You know, you went to Harvard, you got your MBA. When you came out, you know, you already had experience of building, you know, a successful big business and you came out. Did you know what you wanted to do when you were going to school there? And when you came out, what did you learn from your Harvard MBA that's really helped you in this business, if at all today?

Greg Selkoe: Well, so I learned a ton at Harvard. However, I don't have an MBA. I actually have an MPP. So I I I guess uh that was a but um I did take a lot of courses at the business school and so I think what's interesting actually is the fact that when I went into Harvard I got an MPP, I was getting an MPP... So that meant I was at the Graduate School of Design which is architecture and I was at the Kennedy School. So it was a joint degree. Um and the Kennedy School is a school of leadership, school of of of public policy really. So, and you know, when I when I when I got into Harvard, I thought, you know, hey, I'm doing this business Karmaloop, but maybe I'll go into the the public sector, but obviously I was pretty far into being an entrepreneur and I decided, no, I I actually want to, you know, remain an entrepreneur. And so, I I took the opportunity. I definitely took some courses at the at the B-school and I have a lot of connections and people I've met over at at the, you know, folks who've gotten MBAs. It's it's super valuable.

But I think being able to, you know, get my degree at in at the Kennedy School was really actually super helpful because it's basically you look at the world from like being a a a leader or an organizer, right? And it's for most of the folks who go to that school, they wind up either doing some sort of consulting or they wind up being in, you know, running for office or being, you know, in government. And, you know, there's a lot you can learn there that you can apply to business, right? And I think really at the end of the day, XSET has a bit of a, you know, an element of a social movement. And you really learn a lot about how to impact social movement, to impact change. And I wound up not getting the degree from Graduate School of Design. It was just too much because I was running a business at the time. But I did graduate from the Kennedy School. So I got a Master's in Public Policy.

And you know, I think we learned a lot of great stuff like statistics and and how to kind of, you know, look at... are you doing the really, ask yourself, am I really doing the work or am I procrastinating? There's a, there was a really great course, this guy, Heifetz, that I think a lot of the B-school students take as well. And it really sort of, it was a puzzling course because you don't really know... it's a a mandatory course and you don't really know what the subject is. And it's funny that I didn't like kind of like find out ahead of time, but but I just didn't. And you kind of get in this course and it's like, you know, they really challenge you just basic... It's really about trying to challenge yourself to always understand whether you're you you're making busy work for yourself or you're actually doing, solving the problem or really tackling the problem. They put a lot of roadblocks and a lot of twists and turns in the class, so you kind of don't know what the fuck's going on, honest, for for a long time. You kind, it kind of becomes clear uh later on as the course goes along.

But I mean there were people who would like literally cry in the course. I mean it because basically you couldn't have a right answer. They would always challenge you and say you were wrong and really, you know, it was, it was very... I don't know if they've like softened it a little bit in this time, but they they were really tough on you and they would really, you know, hammer you because you had to also learn how to deal with difficult people. And that was an amazing course and really, you know, I ask myself all the time "Am I doing the work?" which is the question they asked that, they they're really teaching you to ask yourself, um because you know a lot of times whether it's business or whether it's public policy, you're dealing with personalities, right? And so the question is like you know you can get caught up in drama and lose focus, especially when you're doing a startup and there's a lot of interpersonal stuff, you're putting everyone through really hard work. There's no, there's no off, there's no downtime I mean, you know, as an entrepreneur, you can talk about work-life balance. If you're going to start a business, there's no work-life balance. It's just there's no... Something goes wrong, you're the, there's no one else to call if you're the, if you're the founder or you're, you're one of the founders, right? So, it's a 24/7 life. And you know, the the the minimizing the amount of time you spend on stupid things and on drama and and things that are ancillary to the mission, you know, it's really good to be able to recognize that. And that's what that that course taught me. So I I I, the experience was great. There's so many tools I use um all the time, and through that I built networks at the at the business school, and I've I've you know, I've you know tapped those networks that have been really helpful to XSET.

Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah. We've had um a few other guests that went through that same program and I know it's a question of you know what impact are you going to have in the world or you know you're going to go to a country that doesn't have uh you know healthcare in certain areas and they, you know, it's about you know helping humanity at different levels. So I know there's different values from that um organization.

Greg Selkoe: Yeah. I mean the the impact thing, sorry to cut you off there, but that's super important and that's something that I tie, I try to tie into what what I do at XSET.

Jake Aaron Villarreal: You know, as you look at your company today, um what's... you have about 35 employees as I recall, maybe more now. Um what's the biggest challenge you're facing as a company?

Greg Selkoe: You know, I think that the, it's a it's a it's a good challenge, but it's a challenge nonetheless, which is we have a lot of opportunity, as you said. It's a, it's sort of a broad uh you know, you build this community, this this dedicated audience, and there's a lot of ways you can monetize that audience, which is a good thing. But you also have to focus on where the high margin revenue is and where where um you know. And there's a lot of folks particularly on the e-sports and space that you know the companies I talked that have had real trouble generating significant uh, they they can generate revenue but they haven't been able to generate profit or you figure out ways that, you know, don't burn excessive amounts of capital. So, we've we've constantly, you know, we're we're building this business, but we're also kind of like, we're building the plane and flying it at the same time and trying to fine-tune it while we're going.

So, I mean, you know, raising capital is always the biggest challenge, I think, for any entrepreneur because you can have a great idea and you can have the right drive, but if you don't have the the the the capital you need to to build it out, it doesn't go anywhere. So, you know, it's just trying not to be opportunity junkies, trying to focus on the opportunities at hand. Uh, which again, it comes back to the fact we're successful, we have a lot of opportunities, but um, you know, we have to have to be very careful about that. And, you know, staying relevant. It's also a people business, right? Because we're dealing with talent. We're dealing with, you know, our biggest asset are our our people and sort of intangible IP, you know, value that we generate by continuing to be uh noticed and culture and continuing to grow fan base. So, you know, with people comes a lot of uh interpersonal challenges and you know, people are not always reliable. And you know, it's not like we're building a a software that just runs, or you know, they have their own set of problems too where you know, things can break or there's technical challenges. But for us, you know, we use technology to facilitate that. I mean, we, you know, we're we're constantly looking at AI and other ways that we can use that to improve efficiency, improve communication. You know, I'm in Boston. Most of the team's in LA, we have an office in LA, but people tend to work remote a lot. So, all those things are are challenges, but they're also things we're pretty good at.

Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah. I want to touch on people because that seems to be maybe even more relevant with your company versus like you said a a technology company where you can build it kind of set it and forget it for a while and revenue just comes in. What's the what's one of the challenges that you look at and you have solved when it comes to hiring the right people for your company?

Greg Selkoe: Yeah. So I mean, um, so I I'm a graduate of Y Combinator, right? So I I lived out in Silicon Valley in Mountain View. I went through the program there. Awesome experience. Michael Seibel was my cohort leader. It's cohort two, no cohort 116. Um, and you know, one of the things they talk a lot about at at Y Combinator is like when you invest in a business, you really invest for three reasons. And that's team, team, and team. You know, a lot of times we say, "Give me a give me a terrible idea with a great team versus a great idea with a terrible team, and I'd bet on the terrible idea with a great team every time." Right? So, I can't overstress how important it is to have good people on your team, particularly when you're building a startup because everyone's got to be pulling their weight, right?

And frankly, I I have a mixed record at hiring. I think you know I've been I've had four companies that you know uh three of them I started, one of them I was the you know the the head guy I had a partner, and you know I I've I've had some horror stories and I've made some stupid mistakes and I've I've kept people for too long and then uh dreaded it um. I think with my company Karmaloop that had a ton of success near the end we were way overstaffed and you know I wind up not having a great second exit. The company still exists. It's 24 years now, but it's it's not what it once was. And you know, it was a bad sec, I had a good financial exit. I had a bad second exit. One of the things, I I kept people too long when we clearly needed to lay folks off because I just didn't want to be the bad guy or I kind... and some of those folks I can't even remember who their name now 10 years later, right? And I really kind of stuck my neck out for folks. Uh and it was unfortunately, it was a mistake because it was not the right thing for the business.

And so I think with this company, what I'm really proud of is that learning from that, we've been pretty good at when we've had to make, you know, we started out with four founders. Two of them have exited from the company. Uh that's not an easy thing to do. We've done it effectively with very little collateral damage. Kind of left on decent terms. I know I made the right decision. One of them was a really close friend for many years and certainly impacted the friendship. But I know it was the right thing because you know if if if if there's someone who's not working well with the rest of the team that ripples through everyone's job, right? You have you can't have that, right? And it's like, you know, you can have a superstar on the team, but if they're if if no one likes that person or they're causing... and I'm not saying they didn't like this person, I'm just using this as example. I think people did like this person. It was just a work thing. But the the impact even if they're absolutely killing it in their area, if it's if if it's killing morale and killing uh you know, and they're not a good team player, the team suffers.

So I think you know we've got all sort of superstars on this squad. You know, our our COO is the former CEO of Lacoste and Diesel. Our uh Chief Marketing Officer, she was had a partnership at Chase, has worked with people like Kevin Hart and uh Steph Curry. Our our CRO, she's super accomplished person uh with in in working in sales and and in generating revenue. Our head of talent, uh also was at Scopely and at TikTok. So, we've just got these people with really great pedigree. Even Nick, uh, who's my GM and sort of my right-hand man, young guy, didn't have experience in the space, but just super hard worker, super organized, uh, super quick learner. So, I think, and we're all like really nice to each other, like that's that's a nice thing, right? Like, we definitely, you know, like anything when you're building, you know, you're all kind of below board in the ship trying to steer it and it's dark and cramped and, you know, you're going to have people stepping all over each other because that's the reality of building a business. But, I think we have a lot of grace with each other. Um, I think we all genuinely like each other. That wasn't always the case. Even with this company, in the last sort of year and a half, we've kind of, you know, even in the four years that I've been doing XSET, I've learned a tremendous amount and kind of finally got over the hump where like I understood how important it is to have a team that works well together and that everyone and if if if it's not working today, it's probably not going to work with that person six months from now. And you got to just make the tough decision and let let folks go unfortunately because otherwise, you know, you're putting everyone's job at risk. It's not like a big corporation where you can carry dead weight or you can carry folks that are maybe somewhat disruptive because the company's been around for 30 years and does billions of dollars and it's public and you know there's just an abundance of of jobs that you know you don't have to perform at your peak. In a startup like XSET, everyone's got to be a peak performer and everyone's got to be even more importantly a team player.

Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah. So, you got a good group of leaders on the on the team there. You know, when we look at companies, we we try and understand their culture and what they're building and within that you have leaders that really sometimes have breakthroughs. It could be a uh somebody who pushes through and ends up really doing well on the sales side. Could be the founder who's got a breakthrough personally in how they lead. Sometimes it's technology that's a breakthrough for the company. What's been a big breakthrough that you've had within the company that's really taken you from one level to the next level?

Greg Selkoe: I think one was kind of what we just talked about: getting the right players on the field and eliminating some of the folks that you know weren't aligned with the the the sort of vision of the of the the broader company. Um I think um, you know trying to uh delegate more, right? As as you get uh bigger as and it's a problem for all entrepreneurs, like I have that problem which is like you kind of always feel like, "well I have the vision, I know what I, I need to do it myself." So as we've sort of brought in these very talented people, allowing them to make decisions. They'd probably say that we don't allow them enough to make decisions they want, but we certainly are trying and we're trying to give people the room.

Um I think you know another uh part of the breakthrough was really figuring out where we wanted to put our focus, right? We did have e-sports as part of our model for a long time. And you know, I think we were early into the realization in our industry that there was just no currently... I'm a believer that e-sports will eventually uh be a very profitable business, it just isn't right now. Just, it's just they haven't figured out the revenue model and there was a lot of money pumped into it with expectations it was going to be X, Y, and Z and it just didn't, excuse me. We realized that early and we we got out of it, right? And it was a tough decision to do that but and there were a lot of people who questioned it but it it was the right one. So I think you know, good people, letting the people kind of do what they they do best and and and trying to delegate some of the responsibility.

Um and I think the other um you know thing was in then getting the the kind of model and the focus on this content media thing, which is where where where the company's going. Uh uh there was one other thing I was going to say and I'm trying to think about what it was, but yeah I think I think all of those those three things have been super critical. Um, and yeah, and I I just think time, time is a is a is a an important element to business is like you got to stay in the fight, right? We just haven't given up. Uh, there's been a lot of dark days and a lot of times that, you know, I was like, "[expletive] is this thing going to work?" You know, we're not out of the woods by any stretch of the imagination. We got a long way to go. But I think the, you know, having sort of a long-term vision that we all believe in and then continuing to go after that vision and not giving up is, you know, it's it's sort of been, you know, when you talk about a breakthrough like, you know, every six months or something, you know, a new, new recommendation, a new recognition comes about where I say so and so who's a famous athlete reached out and said, "Hey, how do I get involved next?" or we used to be begging, you know, trying to... we or you know, uh we have a big deal with a publisher, which wouldn't have happened until recently, right? So, it it's it's kind of, you know, having the patience to to build the reputation and breakthroughs kind of come through just really continuing to get up every day and having these little wins and continuing to go at it. It's not, you know, oftentimes it's not uh, you know, one change. I mean in in other business maybe it's like you figure out the solution to building the software whatever, but in our business it's really consistent you know you know showing over and over again to your audience and to the to the community and to the and to the the the people who spend money with us that we're the real deal and we can execute.

Jake Aaron Villarreal: As you look at you know 2025, we're halfway through 2024 now or past that. What what are you excited about? What's what's on the roadmap coming that you're really looking forward to?

Greg Selkoe: Well, um, so we have this skin deal, which is this with the publisher. It's going to be huge. That's in Q Q1 of 25. Um, we're going to have a skin, a skin. I can't give more details in a in a uh in a major game. It's going to be huge visibility for us. We also have the, you know, the the license to do a bunch of clothing and and uh in-real-life activations around it. So it's going to be a game changer for us in terms of it's a you know could be an eight-figure deal because it's you kind of make commission on stuff, but it's a big, big deal that's you know more money than uh you know we made in '23 in one deal. Um you know so that's that's big.

Um, we're starting to really build out our XSET Studios, which is sort of our B2B TikTok part of the business, meaning that the sea is our community and our, you know, but we are working behind the scenes now because of our expertise in gaming, like I'll give you an example. So, JBL makes gaming headphones. So, you know, not only did we do forward-facing things where JBL worked with one of our our talent Clix to do the face of the headphone and to do an in-person activation and you know, but we also behind the scenes they also worked with us to conceive of the um the... sorry about that, we... to conceive of the whole campaign and to shoot the campaign. So, to really act as a... let me see if I can shut this off. I know I wasn't supposed to do this, but um you know, not not perfect here. Um anyways, so yeah, all those things uh are really exciting and I think you know, our ability to shoot content and do stuff almost as an agency is a really exciting part of the business. We'll be doing a lot of that and continue to do the stuff we do forward facing in in gaming and culture as well.

Jake Aaron Villarreal: Oh, that's great. Well, I'm excited to see what the future holds for your company, XSET. And, you know, like I said, I got a couple little kids, so I'm sure we'll be looking for your brand and the games that they're watching on Twitch to see, you know, the real deal, the company and the man behind it. So, we will get uh feedback there. But, if anyone wants to find...

Greg Selkoe: So, first before I even say that, we got to get your kids and you some XSET merch. We got a lot of cool stuff. So, send me your address and I'll send over a package so they can be the coolest kids in school.

Jake Aaron Villarreal: Uh, so, uh, where can you find XSET?

Greg Selkoe: Well, first of all, there's xset.com. xset.com that has our content, that has our merchandise on it. Has stuff about events. Um, if you're looking to work with us from a uh, you know, an agency perspective, there's xsetstudios, one word .com. And on socials, uh, it's just XSET. So that's at Twitch, that's at um uh TikTok, X, IG, all XSET super easy. And then on socials, my socials are just selkoe. Um and you can that's on all the social platforms as well. And you know, if you if you want to email me, you've got thoughts. I like to always respond. It takes me a little time, so don't think I'm blowing you off, but you can always email me at Greg, Greg GS. So, gregs@xset.com.

Jake Aaron Villarreal: Very cool. Well, thanks so much, Greg, for coming on and sharing that story. I know a lot of gamers, I'm sure, are listening to this and hopefully they'll get some insights about maybe how they can be an influencer of you someday or with you. You never know. Um, for all the listeners out there, I want to thank you for listening as well. It means a lot uh to me that you spent your time with us. My name is Jake Aaron Villarreal signing off for now, but can't wait to catch up with you all on the next episode. If you like what we're doing, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review on Apple Podcast or wherever you listen, and follow us on YouTube where we go behind the scenes to learn what it takes to be a startup founder.

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