Jake Aaron Villarreal: Welcome to From the Ground Up, the podcast where we delve deep into the inspiring stories of entrepreneurs and their journey to build successful startups. I'm your host, Jake Aaron Villarreal, and in each episode I sit down with the founders to learn about their experiences, the challenges they face, the lessons they've learned, and the insights they've gained while turning their dreams into reality. In today's episode we'll be joined by David Keegan, the driving force behind Max Travel. David brings over 15 years of experience from companies like Acorns and Blizzard to his new venture. Max Travel is no ordinary app; it's changing the travel industry with exclusive hotel discounts and a unique rewards program where your points increase in value over time. It's a platform designed for everyone who loves to travel, from seasoned globetrotters to occasional vacationers. Stay tuned to learn how Max Travel can enhance your travel experience, all with points that grow over time. We're here today with David Keegan. David, thanks for joining.
David Keegan: Great to be here Jake, thanks for having me on.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Perfect. Well I know there's a lot to talk about here. We're going to talk about the company you're launching, uh we'll talk about your career, and we'll talk about you. But before we get started, because really nobody knows who you're, who you are, what your story is in the audience, walk us through a little bit of where it all started. Where are you from, your first job? Kind of let's start there.
David Keegan: Yeah sure, let's take it all the way back. Uh so I originally grew up in Connecticut, right outside of New Haven. And that was a really great uh experience for me because there was a lot of art programs and things in the city of New Haven connected to Yale and other things that we can touch on later that really kind of set me on my path to design and, and where I'm at today. And from a kind of an early on age, really like high school is when I, I started really getting into computers. My family got a Compaq computer that really kind of opened the door in a lot of ways to being able to do video editing, and then tying that into animation and motion graphics, and getting into programming. And um that, that really all started... my, my first jobs were um kind of farm-inspired. We were somewhat rural, so I worked on a farm for a couple of summers. And a summer camp as a cook and baker. As a lifeguard for a bit because I, I swam all through middle school and high school. So those were my, my earliest uh, my earliest jobs. And then after those really started getting into technology and, and animation.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Great. So you, those are great. I mean a lot of people don't really start working until they get you know, out of high school. Might get into college, and for some don't even work during college. But you started early.
David Keegan: Yes.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: What were, what was that experience like working at a young age? And what kind of outlets did that really give you as you kind of shaped into becoming an entrepreneur really?
David Keegan: Yeah so those earliest jobs I kind of, really taught me the importance of friendship and connection. And, and working hard on the farm. And then specifically the summer camp was just an incredible experience to work closely with, with other people, form really deep relationships, many of whom I'm still in, in contact with today. And so those were really interesting jobs that kind of helped open me up as a person, get more social. Uh kind of introverted from a young age, still am. Uh and then in high school my friends and I started making videos. This was a time when like VHS was still around, but you could start to import those videos into the computer and edit them with Adobe Premiere and, and other software. And I had one friend in particular whose parents were actually art teachers and were always kind of looking out at what was happening in software in the art space. And through my relationship with him and, and his parents got exposed to uh After Effects at the time. And then Maya, which is something that I used throughout my career for a long time. Working through... we'll get to all of this, we're working at Blizzard for five years on, on many of their video games.
And so even in high school my friends and I were filming videos, and then I would edit them, add special effects and After Effects. And then got more and more into 3D animation, really diving deep into that world. And I uh, this was also a time online where you could start going to meetups and things. And so actually went to a Maya User Group for this 3D software. And from there got in touch with a medical animation studio in Connecticut and started interning for them. And that was really what kind of set me on my path for the next couple of years of interning. I would drive up there a couple days a week after school, work on, on animations. Got to work on some animations in high school for DARPA and, and other places. So some really cool projects.
And then that took me into a great application to the Savannah College of Art and Design where I eventually went um and studied for a year. And then through my relationships from that internship, uh one of the guys there came out to California to work on a movie for Nickelodeon. And so I went out for a computer graphics conference, and that's what brought me to California was going to this computer graphics conference in LA through this connection from the internship. And then when, while I was there, he mentioned that they were hiring entry-level people. And so I applied and got in, and planned on taking a semester off to work on this movie for Nickelodeon. And then ended up taking the whole year off. And then ended up never going back to school.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Wow, that's great. Yeah, design is such a need in not just applications we use, but really in life. If you think about everything we do, everywhere we're at, it's been designed by somebody around some topic, around some inspiration. As a designer yourself, and is a very good one, what, what is it that you feel uh makes that something you're really good at?
David Keegan: I think it does go back to starting it at an early age and being really passionate about it, and being fortunate that I had very supportive parents that put me into art classes and helped me explore those things. And I think it really stemmed out of um... I was diagnosed with dyslexia very early on. And around middle school, and so I was in a lot of special programs middle school, high school, extra test time and, and all sorts of things. Um actually because we were so close to Yale, I got to participate in the Yale Child Study for dyslexia that there was a HBO documentary about it. So uh kind of that was something that really shaped my, my childhood in, in some real negative ways, but also some extremely positive ways through the support that I received. And then I think because of that it really kind of encouraged you, it pushed me um into more of the creative side, of leveraging those creative parts of my brain to I'm sure in some ways compensate for some of the these um uh difficulties I was having in, in reading and, and school and things.
And so that really became like an incredible outlet for me, um learning to draw. And then really the unlock was the computer, and being able to create videos, and then animations, and then learning to program. It kind of just kind of clicked for me, it was a very logical um explore you know expression of, of thinking, of creating things. And so uh I think because of that experience I kind of really leaned into creativity and art, but from like a technical, logical standpoint. So I've always kind of blended art and technology to create designs. And then that's just become such a passion of mine, of really creating experiences and user interfaces and products that are extremely easy to use and simple. And of course, you know, Steve Jobs and Apple being a massive inspiration in all of that. Is, is, that's really what I've focused on.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, that's great. And there's so many success stories of you know, so many different people that come from different walks of life and experiences. And it seems like, I mean it's a very common thing. And you see a lot of people that have succeed-, done very well and succeeded at a high level with dyslexia in different things. So it's in technology is great. Um but it really makes a lot of sense of where design came from, and I have more, a lot more questions for your own design because uh there's some really cool stories that we'll share here. But yeah, really cool uh insight there. So you come out to California, and you start getting into the workforce. Uh talk to me about a company you worked for, SignNow. And what was that experience like? And also what was that experience like getting acquired? Walk us through that because I think uh for a lot of entrepreneurs and people that are in business, it's always about building something, but what's the outcome going to be? And it's, there's not many that go public or get acquired. And walk us through what that, what that excitement's like.
David Keegan: Yeah definitely. So getting to SignNow is a couple steps in between there. As I mentioned, came out to California. I worked on this movie for Nickelodeon called The Barnyard, that was a very cool experience to be a part of that. And um, and from there a lot of the people who worked on that film, once it wrapped up, went and looked for other jobs. And so I stayed in touch with many of them, and that brought me to Blizzard Entertainment, which is also in Southern California very close to where I was working uh at the, the studio for Nickelodeon. And so I actually worked for Blizzard Entertainment for five years as a software engineer, and so it was in their cinematics team. So still that you know all that, the background experience of working on films uh, you know, movies and animations in high school and, and, and then in some college really tied into what I was doing at Blizzard. Uh we worked on all of the cinematics for StarCraft II, Diablo III. I worked on three World of Warcraft expansions. So just an incredible experience.
And around that time is when the iPhone came out. And um at Blizzard I was doing software engineering working on internal tools, and so working on creating pro-, programs for the artists to use to make their workflows better. And so still was really interested in user experience of those products, making sure that they're efficient, giving people better tools to do their job in this case (internal tools). And, and then the... when I mentioned when the iPhone came out, this is also around the time that Dribbble launched, which was an incredible platform at the time. Uh and, and so those, those kind of combination of things really opened my eyes to this new emerging world of, of iPhones and app design. This brand new medium that was coming out uh with the, the, at the launch of the App Store. Um and, and so really dove deep into that. Started creating uh little applications on the side, doing a lot of design work for that. And I felt like it was a good transition time from Blizzard to somewhere else. And so was looking at making a change, and came across this product SignNow, which was also in Southern California. And for those not familiar, they're like kind of a competitor to DocuSign focused more on B2B. And so really have an interesting experience to, to go over there and work on this kind of like hybrid consumer business application.
And got to lead design there, also did some of the iOS engineering. Mostly focusing on kind of interaction design, we had this really beautiful signature drawing experience and a lot of fun animations of documents opening and closing, and transitions uh was something I was really proud of in the level of polish that we put into that product. And it was, it was really cool, one day we had an NBA player sign a $98 million contract in the app. Uh which is, was very exciting! Um so, so it was cool to see the product being used in ways like that. And um so worked there for about a year and a half, and around the time towards the end we uh got acquired by Barracuda Networks. And so they wanted to integrate SignNow into their platforms, because of the mobile experience primarily. And to make it easier for companies to sign contracts and, and things like that. And so that was, that was very exciting to go through that acquisition process. And then even more exciting uh was a few months later, Barracuda actually went public. And so this one company had the very fortunate opportunity to experience both an acquisition and a public offering um and, and have some of those shares become liquid. So that was a, that was a very fun experience.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: That's really cool. Wow, yeah. A dream for many, and, and not realized by many too, so really cool to see that. Now you mentioned that the iPhone had come out and the App Store was there. What was your experience like in publishing your first app? Because at this time there wasn't a lot of iPhone app developers. So right as being early on, and to see where it's at now, like what was that experience like?
David Keegan: Yeah it was wild! Um so I actually had one of the first 500 apps on the App Store. Um it was, it was uh let's say, it was my, my start in fintech. It was just a little tip calculator, just uh, it's very simple. Um but because of my... what had happened was I had signed up for the beta for the App Store with my Blizzard email address. And so I guess that flagged something in the system that I was able to, to get in, which was an incredible experience. Um so to be there on day one and experience the, the kind of influx and sales coming in and everything was, was a really exhilarating experience. I've published several apps uh over, over the years since then uh personally, and then of course working with SignNow and Acorns and, and others. Uh so it was yeah, it was an incredible experience. And awesome to see how far the App Store has come and the entire ecosystem.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, it's, it's, the growth is amazing. Um I haven't looked recently but the amount of apps in the App Store is tens of millions and growing. Incredible, fascinating story. Um I want to transition into how you and I met. Um so uh you know, it was eating a bagel, talking about the future, and talking about a company called Acorns who at the time was an early stage startup, had yet had a product in the market. They were looking at building uh an iOS app. And they said uh, "you know, look we have 10, 11 people today, and we want to scale this company up." Uh and they were, and are, a pioneer in the subscription model around fintech. So going from there to sitting down with the founders at Acorns, and then seeing it scale from 12 to 350 people, raising $500 million in the process, being backed by The Rock and J-Lo and a lot of other celebrities. But you as really the, the lead in design, walk us through that experience and I know you were there a number of years, but just that I guess initial meeting and, and kind of how things progressed. Walk us through that.
David Keegan: Yes, definitely. I was there eight and a half years, so there's a lot we can cover in that whole journey and number of different roles that I held. But yes, back at the beginning, joined as the, the 12th employee, as the Director of Design. Really uh set the, the design um from the beginning that was used. And it's definitely evolved and, and gotten much better over time. Uh but it was, it was great, great joining. And that you know, great connecting with you who introduced me to the founders. Um and that uh, it came after SignNow. So it's not all wins unfortunately. Had that you know, exit at SignNow, and then tried another startup uh with some friends that uh ended up not going anywhere in the social photo sharing space. And but it, it you know, it... everything takes you to the next thing I think. If you, you can you know spin it and leverage everything, then, then uh you know, not, it's not a failure, it's just, just a step in the journey I think.
And, and that's how, how we got connected was through that. Um had this startup that wasn't going anywhere, so I was looking for other opportunities, and so uh you introduced me to the founders of Acorns. And uh they really liked what I had done on this previous startup from a design standpoint, and so were interested in, in talking about what we might do together at Acorns. And uh it was, it was a fantastic meeting. Um the, both Jeff and Walter, the co-founders of Acorns early on... I still have really vivid memories of our initial conversations of what they were building, where the product could be, uh and, and just knew that this was you know, something that could sense that it was on like the cusp of something like really new and revolutionary. When I joined Acorns, the kind of only other fintech type app was I think Simple Bank. And then some of the banks had mobile applications. And [what] was really interesting at Acorns was we wanted it to be what I believe was the first fully like bank-level onboarding experience on mobile. Um or very early on, is still the case today. We talked about how we wanted people to be able to set up an investment account in line at a Starbucks. And so we spent a lot of time talking with customers, doing user interviews, research, going through the designs of onboarding. Um the Acorns onboarding is you know, it's not like a social app where you put in your email address and you're, you're ready to start posting. It involves you know, full "Know Your Customer" um uh regulations, and uh getting address and even Social Security Numbers. So it's a very in-depth onboarding experience. And so we spent a lot of time focused on that, of how to really get people through that experience, make them feel good about the experience, about getting their portfolio that is created for them based on their suitability questions and other criteria. So we spent a lot of time on that, a lot of time on the design. And so when I joined we were pre-beta, we were just getting the, the you know, approvals for everything to be able to go out and launch and bring customers in. So it was a really exciting experience to see Acorns grow from zero customers to where it is today.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: And when we started talking about Acorns, I visually remember sharing with Walter and the team that there was a few things you were looking for. One was you wanted to feel like you were building something big. You also wanted to lead design and feel you would be in a role that you could do that, and be in a company that was building something that was mobile first. Which were all the things that they did. But one piece of information I think was maybe as memorable for me, was hearing you talk about not just designing the application, but you also wanted to look at visual design of the office space. And help... yes... help really that experience of the employees of you know coming in and, you know, what's it gonna look like, the walls and the desks and the setup. And it was funny because the founders were in collaboration with I think an outside firm to help them do their office design. And it was like, I don't know if you knew this, but it was an absolute win-win for them...
David Keegan: I did not know that, yeah.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: No, that's great! Because they said, "Wow, if he wants to come and help us design, we'd love it. We're about to spend a bunch of money with somebody that we hope can do it. But if he really is that type of person that can come in here and do that too, that uh, love to have them do that." And so that was uh, that's awesome.
David Keegan: I, I did not know that, because when I, when I joined, I kind of made it like an unofficial uh request to have budget to, to redo the office. And so I didn't know they were talking with other people. I'm sure I was way out of budget from other estimates they were getting! Because it was also an incredible bonding moment to deal, do it with... I have extremely fond memories and, and photos of, of myself and, and Jeff and, and others painting the walls, and um we put wood paneling up on some walls and rented a, a nail gun from Home Depot and did that ourselves. And, and so I, I didn't know that they um got quotes from someone else. That's fantastic. Yeah, but yeah, it was an incredible bonding experience. It was fun to, to kind of you know design the space a bit, and really, really open it up um and, and uh, and kind of see the, the team's excitement uh over that. So that was, that was great. Yeah, really, really fun. Um...
Jake Aaron Villarreal: So you're there for eight and a half years and uh what was the last roll, role you held there before you moved on?
David Keegan: Uh so the last role was overseeing our Experience team. Which I can talk more about the, the kind of formation and creation of that. So it was a product role. So the first four years at Acorns I was leading the design team, growing the design team, and then the last, the four and a half years moved into multiple product roles. And so the last role I held there was VP of Experience and Earn, which was our rewards program. So those are the last two product lines that I worked on.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: And as a designer uh was there a team that you built that you were leading? What was the structure there?
David Keegan: Yeah, so when I joined as the, the first and only designer. So during beta uh it was the only one working on emails and branding and app design and, and all of that. Even coding some of the experiences to get the interactions uh with our graphs and things exactly right. So that was a really fun experience. And then when we got towards launch we started bringing on additional designers, which was great. So starting, being able to, to grow and scale the design team. Um...
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Did you branch out, diversify, delegate work to others? Have them own website design or the...
David Keegan: We also, in addition to the mobile app, we launched a web app experience. So owning and launching the web app experience, and so over time growing the design team. And then also adding user research. So something that mentioned was really, really fundamental and foundational for a lot of the work we did at Acorns. And so in the early days I was doing all the user research as well. And then being able to scale that user research team, bring on incredible people, learn even more from them of how they conduct research and interact with customers and all of that. So grew the design team, the user research team.
And then what we realized when I made the transition from design to, to product was at that time we had multiple product verticals. We had acquired a company uh named Vault that we turned into our IRA product that we called Acorns Later. We had launched our debit card and checking account, we had the rewards program. We had all these different products where in the start it was just roundups and investing. And so what we realized as we scaled was we had all these different products, but there was, doesn't have one team that was owning the, the overall experience of, of like the home screen and navigation and settings and all of that. And so we created an Experience team. And at that point um I handed the design team off to the Director of Design. Guy is extremely talented and has really steered the, the design and, and the product in a great direction. And then started, kind of transitioned over to more of a product, product manager type role leading experience. And then we also included growth still within some of those responsibilities, continuing to work on the onboarding funnel, especially again as we had all these different products, helping to think through how do we onboard customers to Acorns as a whole and then also the different product lines, and how does that all work.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: So when you started there was no customers, and when you left how many customers did Acorns have?
David Keegan: Oh gosh. It's been a, a while since I've known all the numbers. It is definitely over 5 million paying subscribers. Um and so that was uh yeah, the, the largest um subscription business in fintech. So it was incredible, incredible.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Wow. So you leave Acorns and you are off to launch a company, your own startup. And um, you know part of a startup is having a, an idea of what you're going to build, um the problem you're going to solve, um the users that you're going to target (uh we'll get into that in a little bit). But it's also important to make sure you have the right partner I think if you're going to have a co-founder (and sometimes you don't need one, but you have one). Uh how did you meet your co-founder? What's his role? What's his background? Why is it a great fit?
David Keegan: Yeah. So it's really fortunate uh to have Dave Packard as my co-founder on this new venture, Max Travel. And we first met at Acorns actually. So he was the, the VP of Engineering there. Um and when I moved into that product role around experience, we really bonded and, and got to work closely together on how do we kind of strengthen the bonds between engineering, product, and design around product requirements and roadmap and, and, and all of these things, and increasing ownership across the different teams. And so it was, it was a really incredible experience. He's, he's just an incredible person who has the most energy out of, the most energy of anyone I've ever met. It's, it's astonishing what, what he's able to do in a day! Um and so you know, we, we had kind of talked even at Acorns that you know, "after Acorns it'd be great to do something together." Um and you have really fantastic um uh kind of non-overlapping skills with me in product and design and him engineering and, and um leading engineering teams. And so he um, he um had gone to Google, and then I stayed at Acorns for a couple of years.
And when I came up with this idea and was thinking about my next thing after Acorns, and researching and like trying to poke holes in this idea why it wouldn't work, and just kept coming back to it and kept coming back to it. Finally took it to him. We got lunch and I walked him through, I think I had like a six, six-page slide deck that kind of like outlined like some basic designs, how the product would work, what I was thinking about um. And kind of the, the... I think one of the big things for him, like kind of knowing how difficult it is to build something, is getting over that cold start problem. Um and that was something that I had spent a lot of time thinking about of "how can we create something that doesn't have that cold start problem?" Um I mean we'll, we'll inherently have it with needing to get customers, but it's not like we're building a you know a two-sided marketplace or, or something like that. And, and so I think the, the, the idea resonated with him. The ability that we could you know, tap into existing travel inventory to provide offers, and then we just kind of need to build out the points technology, this new novel points technology um... it, it, it resonated with him fortunately. And, and he decided to, to join as my co-founder. So we've been working on it for the last uh seven or eight months now.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Wow, yeah, he's uh got a storied career: Google and Amazon and a number of other big companies. Uh you know, he's got what it takes to get it done in leading, and also engineering and, and innovation, so yeah, really cool there. Um so we're going to talk about your company uh in just a moment. But you were at Acorns for a number of years. What would be one or two big lessons you, you kind of took out of that experience where you are applying it now to this new startup?
David Keegan: Yeah. I think one of the things that, that I kind of really believed in going into Acorns, and then Acorns just completely solidified it for me, was the importance of simplifying products for people to use. And that was something we, we talked about constantly. Of kind of this notion of like, "how do we do the hard work so that our customers don't have to?" And that was something we really put into everything we, we designed and built and, and brought to market. Um around you know, making investing accessible to customers, around making IRAs accessible to customers. Uh I think that you know that was, was something that was really solidified um in me while working through Acorns, the importance of that. I think the, the new thing that I really experienced firsthand and, and something that I've take with me for the rest of my life, is the importance of like mission, and um you know doing what is right for the customer, and then having like your principles and a mission statement that really enforce that and make it real for everyone.
So that was one of the first things you know we did on Max Travel, was to put together a mission statement that we felt like we could all get behind, of, of what we stood for, the operating principles we would use even as just a three-person team right now. Um I think that you know, that's something that I think it is important to do, to, to set that out. Um because you know, who, who you work with and, and who you build these products with I, is, is so important. To have the right people on board for the right reasons.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: 100% agree with that. And uh getting behind the mission I think is as important, but it does take a lot of deep thinking about what that mission is, what it should be. And sometimes you pivot a little bit, but I think it's great to, to start with that foundation and then everything else can be built on that. So really, really great lesson and, and should be inspiring for others that are starting their own startups as well. I think it's a point that's often overlooked and not taken as serious, but if you're going to build a great product and a platform that's going to impact people, you should really think deeply about that. Um yeah, so let's, let's dive in here. Max Travel, where'd the idea come from, and now you're bringing it to life. Walk us through that.
David Keegan: So, so yeah, so this, this idea really came to me during the pandemic when my, my wife and I (who are avid travelers) weren't able to travel. And so we um you kind of, I was, I was looking around and trying to think of like you know, "what's the next best thing?", and came across travel reward points hacking. Through reading a lot of blogs and listening to some fantastic podcasts, like all the hacks, and, and really got into that. Dove deep down that rabbit hole and it was, it was quite complicated to keep track of, of all of this. And, and the points and the conversion and everything. And, and so that kind of like set the seed of like, "what would this look like if it was easy?", which is a question I always tried to ask at Acorns and in the products that I build, right.
And that led me to another realization once things started to open back up, was that as people returned to travel (travel returned in a huge way!), but at the same time prices were just you know through the roof. Because of inflation and rising costs and, and all of these things. And I realized that there wasn't anything that kind of could offset these rise in costs. So all these points I had accumulated um that were just sitting in these travel portals were actually losing value over time. And so I was thinking about kind of like ways to offset that, or, or take some of the things I had learned at Acorns and apply it to this. And at the same time you, there's a lot happening with um you know the, the Fed raising interest rates and things, and, and thinking that this could really be an opportunity to uh kind of take advantage of these multiple waves I was seeing. Of "return to travel", people being, people being much more mindful of rising costs and expenses, and then also helping to offset some of those costs through these new yield opportunities that were opening up with, with rates increasing and things like that.
And so that's really where the, the genesis of the idea came from. And so started looking around at travel partners that we could leverage to bring these travel booking experience to market. And then how to build this new point system, where the um the key kind of differentiator with Max Travel is that when you book travel on the platform you earn points. But now, for what I believe to be the first time ever, those reward points actually grow in value. So currently they grow at 3%. So that means if you earn 10,000 points on a hotel booking or multiple hotel bookings over a year, they'll grow to you know 10,300... uh the 10,300 points, and, and then you could redeem those for travel. So you're, you're saving more over time on future travel expenses.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: So if I'm a user on your platform, and I, by the way love traveling. I've been to a lot of countries, and there's always a, a need to figure out strategically how I can do it cost effectively. What platform should I use to do that? What credit card should I use to do that? Do you need to have a specific credit card tied to anything as you get points? And then those accrual points, did they last for a certain time frame? Do they last for the duration of, of my life? How does, how does that work?
David Keegan: Yeah, great questions. These are all things that we set out to build the product. Wanted to really understand the, the, the market, which I had done through all this travel reward hacking I was doing, and then understand like what are the existing pain points and how can we kind of knock those barriers down to make it better for customers, more accessible for customers. And so the way we've built the program is that it's a free app you can install, we're in beta currently. And then once you're in there, you can browse over 800,000 hotels worldwide and you'll see the prices and the amount of points you'll earn when you book. And then when you book, you can book on any credit or debit card. And so you could actually stack your rewards if you wanted to. If you have a card that offers cash back or additional points on purchases, when you use that you'll still earn that cash back or points on top of the rewards that we're issuing within Max Travel. And then those points uh will, will grow over time within Max. That you could redeem them for additional points or additional... additional bookings. And so the win-win for the customer is you can travel more, and you could do it more cost effectively.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: And for the hotels it's inventory of potential openings where they'll have more bookings without having to spend more on marketing, and they'll get more customers over time.
David Keegan: Yep, exactly. And that's the, the basic business model of this is when we send customers to those, these hotels, they're paying us for sending us those customers. And so we keep some as revenue, um and, and then give points to customers for... to reward them for their loyalty.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Got it. So there's a lead generation component to this in exchange you get... Rather, that's... and travel for those that don't know is such a massive, massive consumer spend. Um there's just so much opportunity in that space. We've worked with other companies that aren't doing anything like that, but uh I know lead generation is uh something that really helps run that industry. And so that's great that there's a new innovation around that. Uh so you're just now um in, in, in beta. And um I guess in terms of uh, where you're at from a... you started this about 8 months ago, is that correct?
David Keegan: Yeah, about eight months ago, yep.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Okay. Uh and then in terms of like, I guess the breakout idea that you just shared, this is kind of the beginning. Have you gotten to the point of like, you're, you're looking down the path a little bit in the roadmap of additional areas that you're gonna think about building?
David Keegan: Yes, definitely. So yeah, I think it, it's important as, as a founder or really anyone building something inside of a company or, or on their own, to I really think have like a kind of grand vision but a very like narrow scope for, for what you're doing. And be able to connect the dots between those. And so I think the, the potential of this is, is quite massive in terms of where we could go with the roadmap. Introducing uh additional travel verticals of course. Interaction with other reward points, um credit cards down the road, things like that. But to, to start, we're being hyper focused just on hotels and um building out the platform. And so that's what we're working on finalizing for the beta right now, is building out that platform that can then scale to multiple verticals or additional products like shopping um rewards and things like that. And so we've, we've... in the beta today, customers can browse over 800,000 hotels, they can book through the platform and then earn points. And then they'll actually be able to see those points growing in real time. We've set up a very cool dynamic system where those points are visualized growing in real time. And then on the monthly cadence those points that have been accumulated become earned and that then feeds into the, the compounding calculation that we do over time. And then the last part that we're just putting the, the finishing touches on is the point redemption piece. So there's been a lot we've had to do with um, with card purchasing providers and, and our travel provider to really build a, a custom point redemption solution. So that when a customer goes to book a hotel uh they can cover a portion or maybe all of that booking with the points they've earned. And then if there's an outstanding balance from the point, from the delta of the points, uh then they'll be charged just for that additional amount. And so we're finishing up all the payment rails on the back end to make that all work.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Got... sign me up! I'm ready, I'm ready to go travel the world! Awesome. Um you know there has been a lot of breakthroughs in AI, and in the fintech space we know AI has been applied in, in many different ways with all the data and the big data sets. And um, do you see your platform um taking advantage of AI today or in the future?
David Keegan: Yeah, this goes back to I think what I was just talking about around having this like kind of big grand vision and being able to connect the dots to what we're doing today. So the answer is definitely. Uh but today, again, being hyper focused just on the hotel booking. But I do think that there is an incredible opportunity here with um what we're seeing in AI, and following that space very closely in addition to my, my co-founder who is, is playing around with it on the technical side and, and things. Where yeah, I think some of the immediate things that come to mind of, even some, some sample projects I've seen and played with, around you know, creating trip itineraries. Or just for myself, my wife and I are about to fly to Australia and spend some time there, and we, we've booked a hotel in an area of Australia, and now are seeing on, on TripAdvisor people saying that it's a terrible time to go to this area of Australia that we've already booked a non-refundable hotel at! And, and so we're debating whether we should go or not! And so it would be fantastic that when you're booking something, to have some sort of AI-powered basically travel agent there telling you like, "Hey, you know this is the, the end of the rainy season, so expect showers or thunderstorms," or "this is stingray season," or um... yeah those are the things where we're kind of debating right now! So very top of mind. I think there's you know, incredible opportunities in the travel space for a layer of AI, both in like trip planning and like understanding these new areas, especially if it's a place you've never been to. It'd be great to maybe have all of this aggregation of, of travel advice um distilled down to you know, a simple kind of list of where to go, what to see, what to avoid, what to, what to think about. So it's uh definitely something that we're thinking a lot about.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah it's great, it seems like it's right in line with what we're seeing a lot of other companies do in the AI space, which is take um a lot of data and then be able to predict uh for, for domains or people or sectors how you know what's coming next. And I think creating agents in any sector that can help you do your job or make better decisions is great, and this sounds like a great opportunity to have an agent that's really like a co-pilot with you as you are booking your travel, or maybe rebooking your travel, that can give you insights and guidance without you having to go online and do a bunch of research to figure it out on your own. So that's really sounds like a great, great route there. Um you've had an incredible career so far, and it sounds like you're just getting started. Um if you're an entrepreneur out there today and looking at potentially building something, walk us through where you think they should maybe look? Or more importantly, not look? But what should they be inspired to take from you in, in your experience that they can apply for their future potentially?
David Keegan: Yeah, I think that, I think that the, the most important thing is having a really clear idea, perspective on what the problem is to solve. Like what is the, what is the customer problem that you want to solve? And so in our case it was creating a program that hasn't existed before to offset, help offset rising costs um, and, and give people more opportunity to travel the world. And, and that's embedded in our mission and, and really is the foundation of, of what we're building and what we're going out and trying to solve. Being able to create a product that not only helps people book travel but really helps them travel more through reward points that grow. And so I think that, that starting with that clear sense of what is the, the customer benefit and what is the problem that you're solving is, is absolutely critical. Um because in a lot of ways, building products has just gotten easier and easier. With all the APIs you can build on top of, and payment layers, and, and so many fantastic products out there.
It has been kind of going back to the early days of Acorns really incredible to see the progression of that, especially in fintech. Um of where we were when we started Acorns and the partnerships that were available, to where the fintech ecosystem is now in terms of banking and payments and, and um all sorts of, of critical infrastructure. And, and so it's I'd say easier than ever to kind of build something from a technology standpoint. Um but I think that there, there are oftentimes too many apps or products that it's very hard to kind of like distill like, "how will me as a user, how will my life be better after engaging with this product?" I think that's, that's really the key thing to solve um for you know what, what it is you're going after and how you communicate that to customers.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, that's well said. And I, I think that's great advice. You know, uh since COVID hit, it seems like the, the world has changed in some ways for the better and in some ways reconfiguring how we operate. Um the trends that are out there today are people are pretty happy working remotely. As you launch your company and you look to scale it up, what's your position on having remote employees versus on-site in office?
David Keegan: Yeah, so I think this, this really comes down to what we were talking about earlier of establishing those like kind of principles (we call them operating principles at Max Travel) and the mission. And starting with getting people on board who are really bought in to those, and can you know really operate and execute at a very high level. Um I, I think that if you have that, then working remote is not a problem at all. We're 100% remote um with the, the team right now. It works fantastic. Uh just uh always in Slack and video calls and, and things like that. And so I think if you're, you're working with the, the right people and you have kind of you know, a good definition of, of what that means, and you have people who are bought in and, and really owners of what they're building (and owners in the company I think is really important as well) um, that I, I, I love working remotely. So it's, it's been great. Uh even you know, before I joined Acorns I would kind of, I was doing contracting work and, and kind of you know felt that I was you know very productive as an individual. And then more productive in the office with other people. But I think with where I mean, technology has gotten to at this point with video calls and Slack and all of those things, I think that that same level of productivity could be achieved with, with a remote team.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: That's great, yeah. Now we're also hearing from investors that they want to you know, see their investment go longer, and having a strategy to, to build a team or hire a team is, is, in the US is great. But do you have a strategy for building an international team as well?
David Keegan: Not today. It's um, it's, will be available internationally and um it's something that we definitely would want to expand to in the future. Like localizing the product to other areas and things like that. Um you know especially, especially right now where, where, where fundraising is at and the kind of economics and economy is at, we're really focused on keeping our costs as low as possible. So that's another big benefit of not being in person, not having to pay for office space. Um so our overhead is extremely small thankfully. And you know, expanding internationally, that would definitely come with you know the, much more, you know proven traction of the product and investment and things like that. So definitely, definitely like on our road map and we're thinking about it, but not part of... we don't have any dates on it yet.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Great, that's great. I love that answer. Cool, well we've heard an incredible story by David Keegan today. David, um thank you so much for your time. Uh we will absolutely be inspired not just by the beginning of your career, but where things are going. And uh I rest assured I will absolutely be one of the members on that platform! We have plans in the future to do a lot of travel, so awesome. Until then, this is all for episode. We'll catch you on the next one. Thanks for joining.
David Keegan: Thank you, thank you.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Before we wrap up, I want to give a big shout out to all the entrepreneurs that are joined to make this podcast possible. And for all the listeners for listening, it means the world to me that you chose to spend your time with us today. I'm your host Jake Aaron Villarreal signing off for now, but can't wait to connect with you all soon on the next episode. Take care.
This show is sponsored by Match Relevant, a company that helps venture-backed startups find the best people in the market. And they do it in three simple steps. First, they sit down with founders to understand their story. Second, they tell their story into multiple candidate channels. And third, they schedule interviews within 48 hours. Find us at matchrelevant.com to learn more about how we do it.
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