Jake Aaron Villarreal: Welcome to From the Ground Up, the podcast where we delve deep into the inspiring stories of entrepreneurs and their journey to build successful startups. I'm your host Jake Aaron Villarreal and in each episode I sit down with the founders to learn about their experiences, the challenges they face, the lessons they've learned, and the insights they've gained while turning their dreams into reality. I'm excited to have with us today Austin Mac Nab, founder of VizyPay. Welcome to the show Austin.
Austin Mac Nab: Thanks for having me Jake, I appreciate it.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Cool. So a little bit about Austin. He's an entrepreneur, he's built a payments platform, and I'll talk, I'll let him explain the details of exactly what it is that they're providing to the market. But really cool to know that in 2022 Austin won the CEO of the Year award at the Technology Association of Iowa. He was also a finalist for our CEO of the Year for the Ernst & Young in 2022 as well. So Austin, um I guess before we dive in here, welcome to the show. I know that proximity oftentimes influences the type of work you get into in your career. We're going to talk about you a little bit uh proximity-wise. When you grew up, what were the industries that were relative to where you lived, and did it have any, if any influence at all in what you do today?
Austin Mac Nab: Um, well I would say you know, my mom actually immigrated here from Vietnam and I'm basically first generation um you know for our family. We kind of [were] raised in the United States, and with that being said, you know what I was exposed to is a lot of factory kind of jobs, because that's kind of what my mom was. That was our opportunity limit, with English kind of being her second language, if you would, when she got here. I mean even today she still speaks more you know Vietnamese [than] she speaks you know English unless she's yelling at me, right! But uh, but uh other than that you know, so I was exposed to a lot of factory jobs. Um a lot of you know, work long hours and grind it out and seven days a week, and that's all they, that's all I knew because that's what my mom did. Um so she's a seamstress, she worked in the factory you know with cable. She still works, she's 74 years old, she still works with one of them now, um and she, she definitely doesn't know how to quit. But um that's what I was exposed to industry-wise, man. You know kind of that world with industrial, so yeah.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: That's great. Looking back, as you grew up, um what was your very first job you held as a kid?
Austin Mac Nab: Um, well you know back then, you know we uh when I was growing up, my mom and dad divorced when I was a very young age and my mom remarried, and my stepdad was you know emotionally and occasionally physically abusive kind of a shit show relationship um you know growing up. And uh I didn't understand the meaning of money, I just knew we needed it. And the first job I went out and did was actually selling egg rolls door-to-door, around 12 years old. I would, my mom, God, I would take all the orders in these rich neighborhoods in Cedar Rapids, Iowa back in the day throughout the morning time and the late afternoon, I would let her know all the orders, she would make them towards the end of the night, and I will go back and deliver them one by one. So that was my first job you know um in the world of trying to [see] what money was and how you kind of you know you give me this, I give you that kind of concept for your, for what you're doing. So that's crazy.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, egg rolls is a big part of our family as well and if you would have came by our house I guarantee we would have bought, bought some. Uh you probably learned a lot about sales too. Um and that's probably the toughest job I would say is, is selling a product door to door, especially as a kid. I did the same when I was young and you know you get the rejections. You also learn a lot what works, what doesn't work. When you kind of started getting into your career, um what was the, what were the type of roles you started to work in? Was it sales, walk me through that a little bit.
Austin Mac Nab: Well there's a couple kind of versions of this. You know when you're a teenage you know kid kind of getting to [the point] that you're trying to shoot out light right, so you know my dad, my biological father was in the Marine Corps for 21 years. Um he was never maybe physically there a lot, but he definitely was a phone call away. So he was involved to a certain extent. And you know what I was used to with my mom uh being in that world, so and being in the world of a Vietnamese mother, it was always "do good in school, be a doctor, be a lawyer" right, that's kind of what you're told to do and kind of raised to do. Um and that was my job for her. And then I also wanted to be in the military with my dad right. So you know as I kind of gradually got to that point uh I was none of them. So I went totally opposite on everything my family has done.
And when I got into sales, I mean its first equatable job got me into you know selling door-to-door candy. And that went to telemarketing, and then I went to you know working in you know in a movie theater. But then it was one of those moments that you felt like you have to move up in a company right. So my mom always told me you know, "work hard and, and hopefully you can move up," etc. That was part of it, minus the lawyer and the doctor comments. And so I worked at Best Buy and I thought "hey you know for sure you know I'm going to move up, I'm going to kill it, I'm going to be the shit you know and I'm gonna, I'm gonna do big things." And I got into Best Buy and I was one of the youngest managers in, in their history at that time back in the day. And then I went to uh you know GameStop and then, and then I got down this industry shortly thereafter around 18 and a half, 19 years old. So I did a lot before I even got to you know even 21, before I could even legally drink right. So um, and once I found this industry uh I never looked back you know. I didn't go in the military, I wanted to be a military police officer believe it or not. And my dad would not let me go in the Marine Corps, he won't let me go in the Air Force. And once I started seeing money being made by just commissions and things you could do within the realm of sales um, I, I ran with it and I stuck with it ever since.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: So the payment space is what you're in today. How did you get into that in your career going from a Best Buy getting good at sales, getting an opportunity to work for a company. Was it a company within the payment processing space?
Austin Mac Nab: Yeah, yeah I mean it's kind of a crazy story because I remember leaving Best Buy, actually getting fired from Best Buy at that time um, and then I went to...
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Hold on, let's stop there. How yeah let's stop there. How did that happen? Because it's important to know successes and failures here.
Austin Mac Nab: Um you know I, I got fired at Best Buy because you know I was young and I was arrogant and you know I thought I was, I was overconfident right? And that obviously didn't rub people the right way and um and I think I pissed off the wrong people and, and then I ended up losing a job. And that taught me a lot about you know "pick and choose battles" and stuff like that over the years to come. Uh but yeah I mean that's, I got by, then went to GameStop right after that so.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Got it. And so GameStop we know that it's, it's a great company, it's a big company. Were you also in sales there, did you go into management?
Austin Mac Nab: Yeah actually I was a, I ran a store, a couple stores for them. I opened one store, ran another. Um and you know during that time, kind of speaking about getting into the business, the payments um, is I, I remember leaving my resume. I didn't back then, I think Monster or CareerBuilder was a big thing back then. This was 18, 19 years ago, right. So I remember leaving my resume on there and I would always get a call and it always thought it was a telemarketer. Finally one day I picked up right, and I said "Well you guys keep calling me so it got to be something, and I don't owe anyone any money so hopefully it's not that." And they said "Hey you know we have this uh, we have this job, it's payments, in the payment space. Basically going door to door and you know to talk to small business owners and basically help them with their processing needs. You want to interview out?" And I said "Fuck that! I'm not in at all! It's all commissioned, I don't want to do that." Um so I, and I wanted that salary job! I thought making thirty-one thousand dollars a year at GameStop I thought I was awesome! I was gonna move up, I was going to kill it. Um and I was like "There's no way I'm gonna go from making steady money to you know a commission job." So I blew them off. And I continued to blow them off for many, in many months.
And then finally one day I picked up again and I said "Alright fine, I'll listen to your conference call, I'll listen to you guys sell me on the job." And I went through it and I, and I said "Alright, I'm gonna do one day a week that I have off" (I was working six days a week at that time). On one day a week you know, for the first day I went out I, I just went to the first date uh the spot where my wife and I went, by that time my girlfriend, we did, we, we went to when we first uh you know had our first date. And I remember them, it was so easy. They signed up with me and they remembered who I was and they signed up with me! And then they gave me their friend. And their friends gave me their friends. And then all of a sudden I was like, "Well fuck, this is actually working!" So six weeks later you know I bought my, my first Mercedes and, and I thought it was awesome. I quit my GameStop and I went full bore into the payment space with my first company that I went with. So that's how the industry found me and it kind of bugged me into it almost.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: It's amazing. I don't know if everyone knows, I'm sure a lot do, that you know if you're an adult and you have a credit card, for the most part you've probably been through a payment processing experience where you give your credit card at a restaurant, a bar, bowling alley, whatever it is. You know, takes your payment and you get charged a fee, and or the, the company does, and, and that's, that's the process. But it's a huge industry and you've been in it for a long time. What's um, walk me through how you've seen it when you started, and as you started thinking about building your own company, what's the problem you saw in that industry? I'm sure there's a few different ones, but what is it, what was the opportunity you saw that you felt like you know "we could let's take a, let's take this opportunity and see if we can..."
Austin Mac Nab: Well you know I, I spent, before you know VizyPay just turned you know six years old uh in, in April, so last month. Um so I was in the industry about 12 years before you know this kind of came about in April 2017. You know the industry in my opinion progressively got worse over the years I was in it you know, and honestly I was part of the problem probably. You know I was naive to the, the things that were happening to small business owners in smaller, big cities um you know. And as I kind of got older and you know money was great, but at the same time I didn't feel like things were being done right, and you know people didn't have more options. And, and I felt small business owners have been taken advantage of in our business. Um and specifically in rural America where there is a lot of population and a lot of, and some of the time a lot of minority population yeah, that they just don't know what they don't know. And, and technology passes those rural areas by. It's not like going into Chicago or San Francisco. We don't want to focus there, we want to focus on America.
So for all those years I kind of collectively put everything together. I, I consider you put the financial business and you put the technical business separately, it's like it's a nightmare, you know right. You put them together it's like an atomic fucking bomb, right. So because it's just chaos everywhere right. Um and when you have chaos everywhere within our industry you have a lot of people selling differently and, and doing this and doing that differently with no really true regulation behind it um or transparency. So when we wanted to start VizyPay um, I kind of probably going into the next question anyways, is we said "Well how can we build an organization? I'm a true believer that you can disrupt an industry not just by technology (although we're building it) but you can disrupt it by how you run that organization and how you represent that industry um you know overall." And I said "Well we can do all of them, we can do it all better." Um so we, we decided to you know start our company with you know our three whys and our focuses of: culture, transparency, and being the voice for small business owners specifically in rural America.
And with the cultural part of it, that is our number one, that comes before our clients. Um and the reason why is because you know 63 percent of our staff are minorities. 27 percent of our staff are women. And 95 percent of our staff out of 113 come from outside the payment STEM tech space. I didn't want a bunch of Austins running around that have 20 years [of experience]. I wanted a bunch of people that are running those days building great habits and holding us accountable doing things the right way. And if you look at the states in a whole, it is not very diverse whatsoever. And women are, at one point in time I felt they were non-existent when I first started. Um and, and not to mention we always wanted to hire the good old boys that have been doing it for a long time, and that means no mindset change. So I said "We have to, we just have to disrupt it in a different way." And I was just doing an interview literally right before you with someone to work here, and I asked him "Why would you want to work here?" He's like "It's because you're the most... I've never walked into an organization where I saw all these walks of life and then they don't all look the same." You know. And you know that makes me proud to do that, especially you know me being obviously you know a half Vietnamese or whatnot to represent that. And it is possible in our states. And that's where we want to disrupt it.
And not to mention giving better options to small business owners in rural America that I do believe you know, I need the help. I mean we could, we could put people on the moon but they have dial-up internet still. You know how fucking crazy is that? Right! So if I can do something in the payment space, which is a P&L line item for them, to help them out, then I'm gonna do my part. And our whole organization has bought into that idea. And I think that's one of the reasons why we continue to you know, kind of march to the same beat.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: That's great. It's interesting you talk about culture, because I believe culture is incredibly important to a company's success. Also the people that you bring on board, and that they buy into the culture you're building and creating, and also can be used as a disruptive tool that you are doing something different than the competition. So when you go and you talk to a company, you know they view you differently because your identity is known for something that you have that other companies don't. I think it's hard to differentiate yourself in a, in a space that there's a lot of competition. But what I'm hearing is you're in a market that maybe the big players aren't focusing on. So that's great. And your culture is focused on transparency, honesty, and delivering a product to make raving fans which makes them want to come back to you. What is it that you're giving, what's the big benefit that these companies are getting from you when you come in? You say "Hey look, I got a new payment processing offer for you." What's the benefit for them to change from what they currently use today?
Austin Mac Nab: Um so you know, if you look at big markets um you know and I, and I gotta compare so you can kind of paint the story for you. You know you look at big towns like Chicago, San Francisco and New York, all these big areas, you're going to have great robust systems like a you know like a Toast, which by the way is a great technology right. Um and then, but when you go into these small markets, these individuals have been with the same company for four, five, six, seven, eight years because: number one, they don't have a live body that they see physically, we have boots on the ground. Number two is, when they call in they're not calling into usually someone that is within the vicinity of them, which is within the United States. Um so they're reluctant to change. And they, and when they [are] reluctant to change, they're reluctant to change because they don't want robust technology. They don't need it. The population is not as big. They don't need all these bells and whistles. They, they just seem to go from like a flip phone to a smart terminal, you know any kind of concept right? Um and but they're still stuck on the, in the world of technology that's old.
So when we go in there and do [this], is we present them with options at their organization, or more than a small company, to level them up from the technology you have now to the technology that we can provide them that is one step above what they have. We provide them a simplistic technology so that it doesn't take 5,000 years and you learn, you know they don't need to learn it. There's not a huge, there's no contracts like some of the big players will have for their big robust technology. And the fees are exorbitant sometimes, not like a huge... enormous for some of these individuals. And the problem with that is these individuals stick with these companies for four or five, six, seven years, their rates are continually going up and they're still getting hammered. They just don't know they're getting hammered.
So we're giving them options to you know, you know eliminate what they pay for processing by getting ahead of the problem. We give them the ability to take advantage of the rules or regulations within surcharging if they want to do that in the states they want to do it. And lastly, we're probably the only company in the nation that will cap and regulate our sales force on what they can charge a client if they decided to pay the bill the good old way. Like the good old Square way or the good old Toast way, whatever it may be. They can continue doing it the basic way they've always been used to, um but we cap and regulate our whole sales force never to be able to gouge an individual like I've seen time and time again in this industry. Um so when you present that with them with a face and with someone they can call that has, you know like today I'm looking at my board now, 18 second hold times, um I think that goes a long way.
You know, Bill, uh Bill's Auto Repair is probably passing his business down to Bill Jr., you know. I mean a lot of these are family owned businesses, they're passing down generation to generation or they've been around the blocks for a long time and, and change is not something they want to do. Because they're scared of what they have to learn and they don't want to pay a bunch of fees and stuff, it's you know, that good old saying "don't fix what's not broken" right. When in reality it is broken! They just don't know it because they're inefficient compared to a big city right? So we try to come in there and present that to them and usually that honestly, everyone says low hanging fruit, that is low hanging fruit. Especially if you could paint that picture and provide them you know uh options to really you know help the business thrive. And I think that's what we do very well at.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: It's great. Um you know sometimes when you're paying for something online, you'll get an email back that says, "Look, if you want to pay with a credit card you can, but you can also do ACH. If you do a credit card, you know you have a fee of an extra $3 or $3.50 or whatever it happens to be." And based on time you just do it sometimes and you're wondering "Where is that fee going to, where is it coming from?" So if I'm a business owner and I see at the end of the month I've had you know 5,000 transactions. In numbers, what are they really paying on average you think as a, as a business owner for those fees? And are you bringing those costs down for them?
Austin Mac Nab: Well in two different markets right. So if I walked, 95 percent of the time or 90% of the time, you walk into downtown Chicago and you signed up someone um you know, their stack, the rate probably is around 2 to maybe 2.6 percent of the volume right? Um but you, you walk into a small town it's closer to 3 to 5 percent you know. Because they just, and by the way that adds up very quickly right. And they just don't know the difference. And and again that's where we come in and show it. Because the people in big towns, well they know the, the game right. They, they switch all the time. They got a million people hitting their doorstep you know, every five seconds someone's walking into something, on something, especially in the payments world or the merchant services world, right. Um and that's where I think again we become a lot different in those markets.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: That's great. You started six years ago. When you started what did, if you want to share this you can, if not don't feel not to. But what was revenue when you first started and where is it today?
Austin Mac Nab: No, I'll be more, more than happy to show that! I think it's a, I think it's a story for maybe entrepreneurs that want to get into this business or start a business itself. Um it was shit! Right? So the first year in 2017 it was you know, we made a whopping top-line revenue of $97,000. Um and last year um we did 17.9 million. And this year we're on pace for 23 to 25 million. Totally booted up the whole thing from scratch. From me door-to-door sales to you know all the way to now 113 employees. Um and, and the crazy thing about it is I was just looking at our business plan that took me 13 hours to create about a week and a half, two weeks ago. And they said that this year our, excuse me, the end of last year uh, they my projected uh... I was very cautious of my business. They said our projected revenue last year was going to be 1.6 million with 10 employees. Uh we did 17.9 million and we walked into this year with over 90. Um and wow, so, so that, that, that's kind of how we started and kind of where we're at today. So...
Jake Aaron Villarreal: That's incredible. And the hires that you've made, are they remote, are they local, are they in-house? What, how, where do they sit?
Austin Mac Nab: Uh majority of them are in-house um here in Waukee, Iowa. Um the boots on the ground, which are the individuals that are going to sell these rural areas um you know are 1099s obviously, are are their own boss, like anywhere [in the] United States. But the W-2s that work for the organization um you know, there are a handful that are outside and you know bigger markets to go into rural areas um, with outside of our organization, organization. Um so we mostly are in-house um here.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: So you know, hiring is tough. Um how are you... what's your process in hiring? And you said you just interviewed somebody. Are you hiring people outside the market, outside your industry with the purpose of not coming in with the habits that you think aren't what you want to have in your culture? And then secondly, how are you finding them, and are they local? Are you, are you flying them in and having them relocate?
Austin Mac Nab: Uh there's some that we've moved and relocated, a lot of them have been local. Our, our hiring process is probably much different than probably anyone for the most part across the nation you know. I max the, what, 95 percent of people have ever been hired here have been... I'm the last guy they see before they walk in the door. You know another handful of individuals you know are interviewed by maybe my, my business partner or whatnot. Um but ours are different. Um for example if you hand me a resume, I throw it in the trash. I never look at a resume. I won't even know your name until I start probably interviewing you. And the reason why I do that, I don't want to, I don't judge a book by its cover. So that's one thing I never do when I interview someone in person. Once I get to the first hiring process of kind of understanding who we are, if they want to move forward they get to me. And when they get to me I don't know anything about the individual, nor do I want to.
So the resume goes in the trash and I start from scratch. And I don't ask for strengths and weaknesses. I don't ask for college degrees or where you came from, what business you came from. I honestly talk about how they grew up from the age of zero to 18 years old. And when I, and I sit there and I ask them to tell me the story. You know, were they a rich kid, poor kid, middle class kid? You know, tell me about your parents and your relationship with them. Where do you grow up? Where did you grow up at? Were you bullied, were you not bullied? Tell me about elementary, tell me about junior high, tell me about high school. And just kind of break that you know uh, that, that wall down of that preparation for that interview, right? They think they're walking in... the college that schools taught them, the last jobs taught them, "you got to be precise and you got to do certain things, say certain things." I don't want the bullshit individual, I want the real individual. So once you break those barriers down, sometimes it gets very emotional for them you know when they talk about you know growing up. Or when they talk about the good or bad times. And when they talk about relationships.
And then you, then you really get to know their passions and what they want, what they've already prepared for me when I ask that question, if I didn't ask that question the first time, you know what I mean. Um and that allows me to really get to know them in a different way and set them up for what they might be walking into at our organization, by being a very diverse culture. And, and we don't go hunting for veterans. When I say veterans, I mean veterans within our space that have been around the block. We go hunting for people that have never heard of our industry! Because I think those are the individuals that we need to open their... We have forklift drivers here, warehouse workers that work corporate. People that found us of all walks of life have walked in here and they are moldable, they're open-minded. And as long as you set them up for success and understand their story, it's so easy to get the most out of people.
And then in return, when they get the most out of us, right, you know just like I was telling that guy today, "Don't get shit twisted, you are not on my journey or VizyPay's journey right. We are on your journey um throughout your process within our company. Um one, VizyPay is long gone in three decades or four decades from now, you're not allowed to look back um you know in 25 years from now, 15 years from now, you better not remember our revenue numbers. You better not even remember how to spell our name! But you better remember the experiences you went through and the lessons you learned within our organization." I did, we, if we did that as an organization then we did the correct thing and we did it right.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah, that's great. Well you don't hear that often from founders. I mean, you're truly serving the people that work for you and looking out for their future. Because let's face it, you know people move jobs pretty quickly in, in today's world. Two, three, four, five years at a company's considered long term. So that's great. Um you know culture is so important, it's the DNA of a company. You know, if you look at your company today and in fintech and payment processing, however you want to define it, what's the, what's your core mission and vision of the company where it's at today? And what do you tell potential employees that might want to join what it is?
Austin Mac Nab: Um you know our core vision is kind of what we've outlined today with you, you know I kind of mentioned a couple times. Is you know continually to build out technology to serve rural communities across the United States when it comes to small business owners. Um and you know, allowing individuals that want to get into the space to learn it. And not fear that you hear the word payments you think "I got to get some financial degree to be in this space." That's not true. Uh if you maybe like want to do heart surgery on me, I might want that you know college degree, but I don't think I'm going to need it when I can, it takes about six to nine months. I've been called so crazy for "You know why do you hire people that don't have experience? It takes you so long to train them!" And I'm like "That's exactly the point, is I don't want someone, I want to take that long and train them the right way to do this business." And that's allowed us to be very creative and innovative with some of this stuff and keep our focus you know with how we started, which is again you know small businesses and rural communities. So.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: That's great. When you go from doing $97,000 in year one and where you're at today, for the founders out there, the entrepreneurs that are struggling to get their company off the ground or to grow... maybe they're a little bit in revenue but they're not seeing the big leap or that... what was it in your company that changed? I mean you went through COVID obviously there was a lot of changes in how people had to you know just survive, live in their behaviors, but what do you think was the lesson you learned and what was it that really launched you to the revenues you're at? Because that's substantial.
Austin Mac Nab: You know, there's a lot of lessons that you know that I've learned, especially initially you know when we first started. We knew we had a, we had a clock. And you know as you're, when you're a founder and coming out of business plans etc, what I mean by clock is you have a cash flow clock right. So we weren't able to you know generate you know um you know x amount of dollars, a little bit over two hundred thousand dollars you know with me and you know the partners and whatnot. Um and that's what we knew. I knew that to live the lifestyle that I have that I created for my last company and, and to also build this organization, you can't take money out of it obviously because you have no money to take right, so that doesn't happen. So you have a clock and the clock is "how long can you survive before you go bankrupt?" right?
And, and what I mean by that is you have to be willing to risk everything to be an entrepreneur number one in my opinion. It can't be a part-time gig in my head. It has to be all in, and that's what I learned. And whatever budgets you came up with to launch your organization or company uh, double or triple it because it's not the number you think it is. Um and you have to be able to be able to wear every hat in the organization. All the you know, whatever job... most people will create something and, and then want people to sell it for them. You know some people want to you know do this and but not handle the customer service, I'll hire someone to do that. But we didn't want to hire anybody you know. We wanted to be able to do every job ourselves so we have a very small crew like three or four the first year. Um so you know I was willing to go door-to-door sales, I was willing to do customer service calls, tech support calls, I was going to do, be the damn janitor, you know underwriting, you name it, I was gonna do everything we needed to do. So then when the next wave of people came in, you were prepared to tell them exactly how it goes and you can call their bullshit accordingly. And then you basically have them buy in because they know that you don't want them to do, not tell them to do something you don't want to do yourself.
So as we started progressing and building that type of culture, we started getting a lot of output from a lot of people that worked with us that would double and triple their efforts to get us where they you needed to go you know. And I always tell people you know, the first year or two I don't... if you work for a startup, if you, if you know how to spell the word vacation, get it out of your vocabulary. If you want to take days off, don't even think about that, that doesn't happen to me you know what I mean. All those things mattered especially at the beginning. I mean it was all in or nothing. And you had to get individuals that bought into that same vision which is very hard to find, and that's why you have to be very selective. But once you get those individuals around you, then you're able to kind of really excel and delegate and and have to focus [on] other things where to get to that next level right.
You know we were you know we almost literally went bankrupt 14, 15 months into it knowing that that was the clock. And we got to the literally the last hour mark and we, we grazed by. And I mean we grazed by by not hundreds of thousands of dollars, we grazed by by hundreds of dollars you know what I mean to survive. And that allowed us to you know, you know build that organization for that scrappiness. And I think until two years ago we never hired in, in waves like we have done the last couple years. We hired like one Ops here and there throughout the processes. "Oh our cash flow can afford Billy, cool dope let's do that." Uh "cash flow can afford this" and then you just continue stacking accordingly um and go from there.
But I think there's a, there's a lot of things that go into it but I know that Mark Cuban says it best you know "sales solves everything." I agree with them right? And that really solved a lot, especially going out there getting sales. But I think there's so much more to that to build initial framework even though when it sucked to get so when you get to that point it's an easy turn key right. Not easy as easy as not hard work, it's just easier because you have more framework right so...
Jake Aaron Villarreal: So that sounds to me like a pivot. Like you understood like what you had to change to scale and to put the, the pieces in place, the framework, the hiring process. And also you know going from hiring a one-off to hiring in teams or groups or uh putting a process in place. It allows you to scale with the right people. Um to me sounds like somewhat of a pivot. Would you agree with that?
Austin Mac Nab: Yeah I mean yeah, our pivot you know when we first started it was a lot of 1099 independent contractors. You know believe it or not people will sell your stuff if you sell them on how to sell it, no matter what you're selling right. Um and as long as there's a commission behind it and they have no boss and they feel like they can work anywhere, they can do it on the side, they couldn't uh they can have a full-time job and do yours. So you know we really you know maximize our 1099 channel uh boots on the ground to sell our products and services. Um and then like you mentioned earlier COVID hit and well by the way towards the end of that year a lot of people lost their jobs. Therefore we, we got tons of more resumes and, and people that want to try something different and not do the same old job, so they started giving us opportunities. And then that allowed us to get into the next phase which was in the last year and a half, two years ago, which is hiring W-2 people that come into our office and you know work for the organization, that are just not independent. Um that you know are laser focused on our vision, later their focus on what we, how we do things.
Um so yeah there was a slight pivot once we kind of get past that initial phase. I remember independent concept, they don't work, you don't have to pay them right. You're really you're only utilizing your time and effort to get them to buy into doing that and, and rewarding them accordingly if they decide to actually go out there and do it. Now with a W-2, there's no, you don't sell, not sell. Even the training itself costs money because you know you're salaried right on hourly. So now we, but there's a different vision standpoint too by both right? 1099 is gonna have 40 million different visions for a lot of different companies. When you work at our organization at the W-2 you know you have one laser vision. We all focus on the same thing, we're beating the same drums. So now we have a mixture of both those how as we've grown our organization. But that was kind of the pivoting point knowing that that's probably the right way to go to have that more of a buy-in concept and that's helped out a lot.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: That's great. And unfortunately there's nobody to really tell you what direction to go when you pivot. Pivots can be hard and you hope for the best, you sometimes bet the company on it. Um and you know in our case as well I mean when COVID hit every company started hiring remotely which was great for us because now the talent pools didn't have to be in Silicon Valley or New York or LA or Austin, they could be anywhere. But then we started to get requests for "can you help us find people in Canada or Mexico or South America or Europe?" and we weren't structured for that. So we had to figure out okay what do we do here in our pivot? And we ended up building a relationship with a company that now we're in five continents and we can talk to companies and say "where do you want to hire? Do you want it to be um you know high skill low labor cost? You wanted to be in the US, you wanted to be in different parts of the world?" And now we can deliver that to them in an easy way where in 48 hours they're interviewing and hiring people remotely, all the paperwork, all that stuff's taken out of it. And we would have never thought about that if we weren't forced to do that, but then it's also helped us grow, scale and learn. So it's really cool to hear that those little pivots I think don't really necessarily get talked a lot about but it's inspiring for entrepreneurs to know that sometimes your path isn't the path you have to continue on. You have to change and change isn't easy sometimes, sometimes it's very difficult.
Austin Mac Nab: But yeah, we have a, we have a model, we have a model here which is "Fail and fail quick." Um you know and because we're okay with people taking risks, we promote taking risks. We promote you failing, we promote you not being cautious uh, as long as you fail and fail quickly. And that's a lot of things we've learned along the way is being able not to be scared to fail um and, and letting an idea ride itself out and before giving up day one. But still fail, fail quick right. So the writing usually is on the wall based on factual information right. Your numbers, predictions about they match you know they close whatever it may be. Um but we're very, even today with out, where we're at today I, I have people always messing up and failing is always trying different things. And then once it sticks we run with it you know, and that allows that creativity to happen within an organization.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah that's great. Um man you sound like you're all about your people and your employees which is music to the ears for people working for you I'm sure they're going to listen to this and go "Okay I landed in the right spot," and you're probably gonna get a lot more people wanted to, wanted to work there.
Austin Mac Nab: Um and by the way we're not, we're not meant for everybody either. So there's a lot of people that would never work here because we are not structured and we we're just in a different mindset. So uh there's a lot of people that would, there's a lot of people that would...
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Well I can tell you I mean we, I've interviewed 20,000 people in, in, in looking for, for companies and roles for them to work at and I can't tell you how many times companies have hired people they love them. They have the right core skill sets, they have everything they want uh in that person but they're an enterprise person. They've been working for big companies like Microsoft or you know any big company (not, not to point them out but just any big company). They're enterprise, they have all their systems in place and they, they operate very well that way. But then you go into a startup where the, the systems aren't there yet or you're building the plane as you fly it, and ultimately they, they don't hit the level of standards that those founders need because they're coming from a different background with a different expectation. So the culture aspect of it if you're truly a startup culture where you're building things and breaking them and learning and you're fast paced you know, that should absolutely be part of trying to assess somebody like "where'd they come from, where they're at, what are they comfortable and what do they like and want?" So that you're clearly aligning with what it is that you're offering as well as what they want. Which oftentimes doesn't necessarily get all the attention it should.
Austin Mac Nab: Yeah.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Which sounds like you're absolutely targeting exactly what you want which is, which is really cool to see. Um you know the best business strategists uh out there say that 80 percent of business really is psychology, 20% is strategy. When it comes to psychology, as the leader, what are some of the tools that you use to stay positive in good and bad times and really to inspire others?
Austin Mac Nab: Um I think it's uh you know I think a lot of people don't um you know if they're starting a company or building one, um especially in a position you know that I happen to be in (which by the way I hate the title CEO, I'll never do it again my whole entire life because I hate being called the CEO).
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Yeah.
Austin Mac Nab: I want to be, I you know I want to be with the people. I want to be part of the, part of the people. And, and I think sometimes you know when you, you see the CEO walking... you're active or "no you go out and you act up." I don't, I don't even tell people where I work half the time I leave here, nor do I ever tell them I'm a CEO right. So but I would say you know we go through emotional ups and downs too. You know I'm just as human as you Jake you know. And I'm just as human as everyone else listening to this call. Um I have my emotional times of you know overloaded or being stressed etc. Um but there's a couple things that remind me of why I need to show up. And actually it's really two specific things that you know I remind myself every morning.
Uh one of them happens to be um the people at the organization that have sacrificed so much at the beginning and now the even the newer people that are putting a lot of time and effort into this. I owe it to them to set them up for success. And I'm obligated to them to make sure that I make the decisions as the best interest for the company but not for me. If it makes my life easy but hurts them, it's not the right move. If it makes you know um their life easy and it helps them level up and it hurts me a little bit, that's the right move right. And it's opposite thinking you know a little bit. So and then when you see the struggles of people when they start with your organization, if you are going to be doing a bootstrap or a startup, you got to remind yourself why you started. And then it becomes the people that are helping you with that vision are the people that need to be number one. So that's my number one thing that kind of keeps me you know when I have a down day or when I just emotionally drained or whatever may be, I remind myself why I need to show up.
Number two is, is you know my mom is a huge inspiration for me. Coming from Vietnam, so my whole entire life she's been working at factories, seamstress. She works at a factory now like I mentioned earlier, 74 years old. She came from a foreign country to one of the greatest countries in the world, and her opportunity was diminished because she did not have all the stuff that I talked about earlier, which is degrees, or her resume was long, and her English was broken, and all those things are that. So she was hindered for all her career in America because of those reasons. And she just wanted to make sure that she set me up for success. I owe it for her sacrifices to do those things. You know, my mom called me the other day uh and I, I'll never forget the story, this kind of relates exactly this question. She called me about, oh I call her every Sunday. But I called her probably three months ago and she was excited. She's, mind you she's 74 years old. She's on the back half of her life, she understands that life is going the other way right. It's not, she wasn't just born again and you know, so some of the calls were kind of a little bit depressing and sad just to hear, and I try to be there for her, motivated, "hey we'll get through this," whatever it may be. But she was excited, it's one day she was super, super excited. Um and I was like "Well why are you so excited Mom?" She's like "They finally did it!" I'm like "What do you mean they finally did it?" She was like "Well my company finally gave me a raise!" I'm like "Oh that's awesome. I mean you've been working hard, you've been there for 15 years, I mean that's awesome. I'm like what was the raise?" you know. And, and so for me on my standpoint I was furious when I heard it, but she was so excited about it. So I had to maintain a positive attitude. Um she got an extra 25 cent raise. Okay? After getting no raise for three years. She works in a factory, she makes $15.25. She's been there for 15 years.
So for me to wake up in the morning and complain to come to work and help people out and try to level people up and try to do those things, um that is not something I'm allowed to complain about right. But for her that's all she's never known, that's all she knows and she, that's exciting for her. To be in California of all places making $15.25 is mind-blowing but to her it's everything right. And it's because the opportunity she was afforded put her in a box and that's what she thought she could do the whole time for all her years here. And I know better. So I owe it to her to show up not only only for my family but the families of the people here, and the people here, and also to show up for her. And she doesn't even know how the time wise show I show up because she's motivated me enough to say I you know what, you set me up for better, I'm gonna set the next people to impact you know for better along with my kids.
And I always tell people this and, and I'm not sure who said this but they said this and I love it. Is every single day I'm selling tickets to my funeral. So when I die I want Madison Square Garden filled up with shit right. I don't want my wives and three kids at my funeral. That means a lot of people I have impacted on a positive way will show up, and that's what I want. And, and I think that's what she would mean she would want for me as well. Um but you know again her eyes are fogged to different things and my eyes aren't, and I think now I, I owe it to her and everyone else to, to make an impact so that's...
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Great. Yeah, I was going to ask you what inspires you but it sounds like you just answered the question, it's your mom. And uh through your history really you know oftentimes it's sometimes the past that gives you the chip on your shoulder that drives you to succeed. You can have someone that's got everything in life they want and they end up you know at Betty Ford, or they end up not doing what you think they should do based on what they were given, their education whatever. But oftentimes you know you read about the people that came from a different background and the opportunities in front of them and they just they're relentless on achieving what they feel they didn't have an opportunity to achieve before and they go after it. So it's really cool to hear uh that story. Um which isn't always known about company leaders.
And you know there's a lot of challenges that go into building a company, but when you get the right uh leader it influences the growth of the company, the people you hire, and ultimately impacts everyone. And by the way you're inspiring others within your company that you don't even know sometimes, based on what your experiences have been and, and how you operate day to day, which is really cool to, to kind of hear. So if we look at this, you've had an amazing career. Sounds like an amazing company. And if people want to, to hear about and learn more about you and your company, where should they go to find you?
Austin Mac Nab: Um we're very, very big on LinkedIn actually. We, that's one of the things that have actually helped us grow uh pretty uh substantially uh in the, in the business world and within the payments space etc. So just look up VizyPay on LinkedIn and you'll get to get a vibe for our culture. The people within our organization that have voices themselves you know, get to know them and get to know you know kind of organizational whole. But we live and breathe on, on LinkedIn. Most people say "go to their website," um I say don't. And the reason why is these are not going to tell you about you know the voices of the people that run it. But LinkedIn will, because we allow them to go out there and build their brand and, and basically speak their mind on things they want to speak about, regardless of in our space or not. And a lot of our people take advantage of that, so to build clout for themselves and their voice, and I think that's very important.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: That's great, it's a great place to go. Well uh, in terms of you, um I think I know the answer to this, but I'm going to ask the question anyway. What makes it great to work at your company and what makes it great to work specifically for you?
Austin Mac Nab: Um well I think that uh I, I... two things you just said, "that work for your company" and "work for you." I don't believe they work for us, nor they work for me. Um I think we work for them, and I think that's a big difference for me. Um is they don't come work for VizyPay, I think VizyPay should be working for them. Our leaders, the people who should be you know getting people to level others up before themselves is one of the hardest things in the world to do in my opinion because it's a mindset break right. It's all about me, it's all about me, that's kind of what we are, we're taught and don't like, I feel like. And to get to others to buy into leveling others up. So I think when someone you know comes to our organization and may be employed by us, I think we work for them to make them better. Um you know they spend a lot of time in our office, eight hours a day even if it's minimal. A lot of bad habits can be built in an organization when you spend that much time there. And a lot, you spend more time with us [than] in your family, so we owe it [to] them to help them build great habits to go home and be great husbands, wives, daughters you name it, uh you know fathers, mothers, whatever.
And then when it comes down to me again I, they don't, I don't want them to work for me. Uh please don't actually work for me. Um you know what you need to do is you know work for your colleagues around you and work for you know to help them level up and allow me to do whatever it takes to, even if I piss you off and hold you accountable, trust me the intention is to help you be better. But you know my goal is never [for] them to work for us or work for me. I think the end goal is how do we work for them, and I think that in return you know shines the light on small business owners and why they should do business with us or why you should work with us over time. Yeah.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Well that's great. Really cool. Well before we wrap up here, I just want to give a big shout out to Austin for joining us today and all of our listeners for listening. It means a lot to, to us that you chose your time to spend with us. My name is Jake Aaron Villarreal. I'm signing off now, but can't wait to connect with you all again soon on our next episode. Austin take care, and again good luck, thanks for joining.
Austin Mac Nab: Thanks buddy.
Jake Aaron Villarreal: Before we wrap up, I want to give a big shout out to all the entrepreneurs that have joined to make this podcast possible, and for all the listeners for listening. It means the world to me that you chose to spend your time with us today. I'm your host Jake Aaron Villarreal signing off for now, but can't wait to connect with you all soon on the next episode. Take care. This show is sponsored by Match Relevant, a company that helps venture-backed startups find the best people in the market. And they do it in three simple steps. First, they sit down with founders to understand their story. Second, they tell their story into multiple candidate channels. And third, they schedule interviews within 48 hours. Find us at matchrelevant.com to learn more about how we do it.
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